Comments on Narcissism Daily Mirror: Does Your Partners Mind Often Appear Elsewhere?

I have to share something really exciting, particu...

2011-11-13T19:46:07.715-08:00

I have to share something really exciting, particularly to Mom-in-law who shared her concerns. I am the one, again, who told about my experiences with my husband's family.

We had an event at our home, and my husband and I had many discussions about who we should invite. There were members of his family that he did not want to invite. I didn't want the drama of not inviting people who expected to be invited. So, I told him, some of them we have had issues with probably won't come anyway. I'd rather avoid the drama and just invite them. Let's show we are the bigger people by inviting them. However, if they did come, I needed his commitment that he would be polite and cordial. He said he could politely ignore them. I thought "Oh boy," but, good enough. They probably won't come anyway.

Well, they did come. My husband did great. Helped me out when I needed him to, talked with everyone. I even saw him laughing with the people he didn't want to invite.

I have been under a tremendous amount of stress with my job lately, and having an event at our home added to the stress. After everyone left, we were talking about something small, and he interrupted me, which he still does constantly and drives me crazy. It's definitely something he still needs to work on. So I got on him about it. He sulked and went upstairs.

After a while, I realized, I had been worried about this event and how he would behave, for months. While my irritation at him interrupting me was valid, I had totally neglected to recognize how great he had done. So, I went upstairs and I could tell he was waiting for me to nag at him. Instead, I said, "You did really great tonight. You were nice to everyone and you helped me out. I'm proud of you." He didn't say anything, but he was in a good mood after that. Sometimes that's all it takes!

Thanks so much for that and yes that is my positio...

2011-11-13T17:54:51.966-08:00

Thanks so much for that and yes that is my position exactly!

Kim

Kim, I hope you don't mind if I offer my inte...

2011-11-13T17:47:14.867-08:00

Kim,

I hope you don't mind if I offer my interpretation of your position.

You have NEVER said that people should not ask each other for help on here. What you are saying is, you are offering particular materials and techniques (which you personally know work). Come here to discuss how these things have worked for you and offer advice, or talk about how some techniques have not worked for you, and get people's perspective on how these can be implemented differently for better results. This is not a place to just throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

This is also not a place to complain about how bad things are, if you aren't truly seeking advice to make things better. This is not a place to compare stories for the sake of complaining. If we all wanted to one-up each other about how bad things can be, I am sure it would make for interesting and horrifying reading. But, stories should be shared only to demonstrate a particular problem or how a technique worked.

I have not found that you don't like to be questioned, but you defend something you know works and have researched in depth. There is nothing wrong with that.

That's my 2 cents!

I am working on setting up some kind of discussion...

2011-11-10T15:47:37.614-08:00

I am working on setting up some kind of discussion group up on G+ soon and will do a blog about that soon too. You can also use the friends connect social networking bar on this site to connect privately with anyone whose comments you relate to. There is no rule that says you cannot talk to each other here! If you want to respond to someone else's post that is fine. I would suggest however that you don't ask for advice from other people if you cannot respect the goodwill that advice is given in. I only mention this as I have had a few complaints about this in the past.

My experience has been however that people who come to a forum to get help every time they are experiencing negative feelings don't usually succeed in saving their relationship. I think this is because realizing we don't need someone else to help us feel better when we are down (but instead can learn to count on ourselves) is one of the toughest lessons we offer. Most people unfortunately don't realize that they need to stop crying and start taking care of themselves and looking deep within themselves for the strength they need until they are faced with no other option.

In my case that point only came when I was faced with the shame of my mother telling me that I was neglecting my kids.

So this is why I am careful now that this space doesn't become a place to look for sympathy - but is instead a place to find strength.

If it wasn't for my concerns about this we would have set up a forum a long time ago and I am sure it would have been very popular. Instead I have chosen to share the truth which is that there are some things we must face alone. I published a poem here with that title which you can find in the index at the top of the page if you are interested. It got a lot of positive comments.

I have a few mentoring clients these days and usually the advice they thank me for the most is when I tell them to go back and read the books again. The steps in them are not easy and they take time to put in place.
The books are also being updated as we speak and cover more ground. They will also be available soon in print.

I answer all the questions I can as honestly as I can so I am sorry if you have found that I don't like to be questioned. I defend what I believe in sure! The lessons I offer here were very hard won for me and have helped so many people - but also can be easily misunderstood. There is so much confusion out there right now on the subject of domestic abuse and narcissism - so it is very important to me that whatever we publish is as clear and straightforward as we can make it.

If you have any questions I will do my best to answer them or direct you to where I have written about that subject before.

Hang in there!

Kim Cooper
http://www.NarcissismCured.com

Hi all, I too (along with someone who mentioned t...

2011-11-09T23:08:42.605-08:00

Hi all,

I too (along with someone who mentioned this earlier) would like to be able to ask others for ideas/advice who have gone through similar things and have maybe had more luck or have been at it longer. Kim, I understand you can't answer everyone and give long explanations etc. so I don't understand why we can't ask each other? I've looked for other forums but they are generally about healing after leaving a partner with NPD or similar issues. If you don't want us asking each other I'm not sure who we can turn to with questions - the books are useful but of course don't cover everything -and it sometimes seems like you don't like to be questioned yourself.
Can you suggest a forum that we could look at which allows this?
Thanks.

Hang in there Flora, Even if you marriage cannot...

2011-11-08T16:59:16.649-08:00

Hang in there Flora,

Even if you marriage cannot be saved learning better relationships skills will help you in every aspect of your life!

Kim Cooper
http://www.NarcissismCured.com

Kimcoo I wish You had known my disappointment for...

2011-11-03T09:55:22.577-07:00

Kimcoo

I wish You had known my disappointment for not having this information early before I got married. I have a lot of things to deal with at the moment. Shame anger frustrations and strange feelings you can think of, as a result of reacting to alot of things ignorantly. I have many times made fool of myself without knowing it. Yet in my heart I was so sencere. The ten years I have been married are the worst moment of my life. Mixed feelings of hate and love. I have been working so much hard to save my marriage. As a result I have lost my whole self and my identity. I think I have been doing it in a wrong way.

Many times I have been asking myself what realy happened to me. Neither could someone answer me nor do I know the answer. I find myself more and more I solated. When I thought I would get sympathy or consederation, all that I have faced is deafening silence followed by this ernomous anger and great frustrations. If I didnt know how to cry I dont know what I wld have bn doing.

Reading your articles and materials, I have also managed to browse some site "break free from the affair" I realise I have suffered alot because of ignorance. I had alot of determination and capacity but I was ill equiped for what I have gone thru.

Its not easy but reading your stuff I come to see light. My hope is its not too late for me to save my marriage. My husband has a girlfriend of 7 yrs and I have had realy bad time dealing with this relationship. I now know the answer I just did not do things right and gave the other girl a chance to outdo me. I really have had a bad marriage, we, both me and him, hanged in there. I have learnt alot from You. I thought I was best prepared for what I got myself into.(marriage) As of now I regard marriage as one of the most mysterious phenomenon of life that is including birth pregnancy and death. The emphasised issues given during pre marriage seminers dont bear any resemblance to what we go thru. Its tricky and may be the approach needs to change to empower pple with the right attitude. I assume many marriages have failed when they did not need to do so simply becuase of ignorance.

You guys may you live long so that alot of pple may be helped with your message.

I am anonymous who shared with Mom-in-law about my...

2011-11-02T20:15:22.232-07:00

I am anonymous who shared with Mom-in-law about my experiences with my husband's family. I don't mean to imply that everything is perfect at our house. There is still work to be done. But, there are no more screaming matches and my stomach isn't in knots all the time. I've learned to put an end to most of the conflicts pretty quickly.

That said, my husband still sometimes says things that sting pretty badly. I think it almost hurts more now because the periods in between the bad behavior are much longer, so it catches me off-guard and disappoints me so much when he regresses back to his old cruel, immature ways.

I just want to make the point that Kim is not implying that these things won't hurt you. You will still feel hurt and angry sometimes. That is part of being human, and in many ways a good thing. The difference is, I recognize the feeling, confirm to myself that I am justified in feeling that way, and can calmly explain why something that was said was uncalled for, inappropriate, childish, etc. I then leave the situation and don't have the need to make him understand my point of view. I've been pleased that he has been apologizing without my asking, after he has a little time to think about it. Of course, I would prefer that he never behave this way. It is much less frequent, so I am hopeful that these behaviors will stop completely at some point.

This is not easy. It is a long process that takes much patience and strength. For me, the outcome is much better than divorce, which at one point I thought was going to be my only option.

Hi Anon who is feeling drained and emotionally spe...

2011-11-02T14:53:33.824-07:00

Hi Anon who is feeling drained and emotionally spent. The answer is YES! Please find the gap finder in The Love Safety Net Workbook and I would also suggest your husband work through all of the other exercises too!

Kim Cooper
http://www.narcissismcured.com

Hi Kim - I have been married for 20+ years. I am ...

2011-11-02T10:19:22.532-07:00

Hi Kim -

I have been married for 20+ years. I am totally drained and emotionally spent after raising 3 children and suffering through a long tumultous marriage filled with verbal,emotional abuse and an affair.
We have been considering divorce but are trying to avoid it if possible. My husband does not want "to lose everything he has worked for and start over with someone else" but cannot handle just how detached I have become. I am no longer interested in sex, social events, or the extensive and unending relationship discussions that he desires. His last effort is to ask me for a listing of measurable changes he can make to keep the marriage together. He has been to counselors who tell him there is nothing more serious going on than a 'guy going through some tough stuff'. So I am hesitant to use NPD in any conversation - although it is very clear to me and to our marriage counselor that this is the diagnosis. Can you recommend a source for a "list of measurable changes"?
Thank you!

Hi MD - Again it seems that you have misunderstood...

2011-11-01T02:17:09.621-07:00

Hi MD - Again it seems that you have misunderstood me.

I am NOT recommending self soothing as a means of dealing with the silent treatment and there are a number of other exercises and approaches described in the verbal abuse article and also the limiting abuse chapter in The Love Safety Net Workbook and "the double life" radio show.

I appreciate you sharing your description of self soothing because hopefully it means I can help you clear up what it is NOT. Self soothing is NOT a means of dealing with abuse but instead is a way to better regulate your own reactions. After you calm down you then need to take action -- not just go back again looking for affection or expecting things will have changed by themselves. Change as I suggested previously involves much more than self soothing or comebacks on their own - but also includes investigating your partners double life and then also doing the steps in the personal bill of rights exercises in the chapter on limiting abuse in the Love Safety Net Workbook. There are additional recommendations in the article on verbal abuse and the article it links to on identity.

Yes I have lived with the silent treatment and I know that this and other forms of abuse discussed here are indeed serious. That is why it is important that the techniques we recommend are not confused, trivialized or applied incorrectly.

We receive positive testimonials everyday for these techniques and they have been tried and tested for many years now.

This site is a resource for people wishing to learn those techniques, not a forum to throw ideas around. Considering the subject matter we deal with I do not believe this would be responsible of us as moderators.

There are however many unmoderated forums where you can do that if that is your wish.

Kim Cooper
http://www.narcissismcured.com

Hi Kim, thanks, yes I understand that. I just mea...

2011-10-31T21:57:05.235-07:00

Hi Kim, thanks, yes I understand that. I just mean that the silent treatment is a bit different because it's not a discrete incident that you can self-soothe over and then move on. It's pervasive and if you live with the person (and in my case live only with that person) it's very hard both emotionally and practically to get on with things if your partner is acting that way. So I think self-soothing is helpful but of limited benefit in such a situation. They may not talk, you self-soothe, feel better and then want to get on with things, be able to organise things, ask questions, exchange pleasantries or whatever but they keep resisting that. So you get frustrated. Then self-soothe again. Then you need to organise something for the weekend or ask them if they're taking the car or whatever but they won't talk so again you hit a roadblock and the cycle continues...

I don't know if this is something you've experienced when you're living just with the silent person? If not, you have to live it to understand the effect it can have! There's no escape. You can say things like you mention on that page about sulking, but you can't force them to talk, or you can go and spend time with someone else, but eventually you have to go home or you need to communicate with them over something - and they simply won't budge. It's a really really tough one! I think it's also fairly common with immature people so it's good that others are bringing it up. I know I would like to hear other ideas in addition to self-soothing and comebacks.
MD

For the silent treatment please also check out the...

2011-10-31T21:33:58.429-07:00

For the silent treatment please also check out the article called verbal abuse part 3 (you will find it in the index at the top right of this page) which is about sulking. It is important to understand that self soothing is not about ignoring insults or bad behavior. Instead building your repertoire of comebacks and putting into practice methods of limiting the abuse is a cornerstone of the 4 pillars we suggest. Self soothing instead is about not needing your partner to apologize or even be happy with you to get on with your life. It is not about 'just taking it ' but rather about not letting it control you.

Kim Cooper
http://www.narcissismcured.com

To anon from October 11 giving advice re involving...

2011-10-31T19:35:13.204-07:00

To anon from October 11 giving advice re involving family,

You sound like you have some real words of wisdom about involving/dealing with families of people with NPD.

I'd like to get your opinion if you have time.

My N-tendency husband (for ease let's call him Fred) doesn't have a good relationship with his big family. They are loud, drink a lot, love to get together and gossip, have that whole "get over it" attitude to anyone with any problems etc. As an example, at our wedding last year his sister gave a speech calling him a "spoilt little shit".

His older brother (let's call him James) sexually abused Fred when Fred was a child and James was an adolescent. Fred told a couple of his family members at the time but they didn't really do anything.

For a while Fred just sort of let it go (although it always got to him and explains why he is the way he is, I think) and hung out with his family, including James. In the last few years though and after a few fights with James over other issues (like James being racist and homophobic and critical of Fred about not owning a nice big home like he does) Fred decided to cut his brother out of his life. His siblings still talk to Fred endlessly about James and how well he and his children are doing and when Fred gets upset about this they basically tell him to get over it. One of his sisters who knows the full story told Fred that he should be the one to "be the bigger person" which really really upset him. It also shows no real regard for the seriousness of sexual abuse and no understanding of Fred's nature.

Now Fred doesn't deal with it well and he is quite rude to his family at times but I think this is because he's never felt like anyone looked out for him or supported him or cares about him or understands him.

One of his sisters asked if she could stay with us next month for a few days. It turns out she was coming to our town to see a play by James's son and when Fred heard about this he told her she would need to find somewhere else to stay. She told him to "get over it" and that his issue is with James and not the whole family. So he decided this was it - he emailed her to say that she has no idea what pain James has caused him and that he doesn't want to hear from her or the rest of the family again. He said after he did that he felt like there was a weight off his shoulders and that was it.

But then two days later she rang and left him a message saying happy birthday. So it seems she's not out of his life and the family aren't taking this seriously.

I've offered to talk to them for him and to try to explain how he feels and his side of all this. I am slightly better at being diplomatic than him and of course I'm more detached. But he's asked me not to do that.

I'd like to help though. His family is a big cause of his stress and he doesn't need anymore stress in his life (his job and children are also very big sources of stress). I'd love to help with this burden, but since he's asked me not to contact them I'm not sure what I can do?

Any advice would be appreciated.
MD

Hi Debbie, I know exactly what you're going t...

2011-10-31T19:16:16.053-07:00

Hi Debbie,

I know exactly what you're going through. My husband is very good at the silent treatment and it kills me. It's probably the worst thing he could do to me, the uncertainty, the horrible atmosphere, not knowing what he's thinking, switching between hating him and blaming myself - it's jsut awful. I have to say, I've been at this for quite a while and self soothing just doesn't cut it for me.

There may be people out there who can go about their business and cheer themselves up while their partner doesn't talk to them, but I'm not one of them. I think it's not realistic, for me anyway, to expect that I can feel okay when he's creating such a tense, punishing environment. The last time my husband didn't talk to me (it was for 2 weeks, for something he did to me) I lost it completely at him at the end of 2 weeks after making a very serious attempt at self soothing and trying to ignore it. I think it really shook him up and while things were awful for a while it brought the issues to a head and since then (it's been quite a few months) he hasn't done the silent treatment again.

I'm not saying that is a good way to go, but I think that in some way broaching it with him and letting him know that the silent treatment is not going to make anything better and that it's just going to make you feel more negative towards each other, or even saying that the atmosphere is so damaging you're going to stay with a friend for a while, whatever rings true for you is better than pretending it doesn't bother you.

I definitely wouldn't say that it's hurting you or making you feel bad or anything along those lines - as you no doubt have experienced, they aren't good at understanding other people's feelings.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

MD

Yes self soothing but I would also suggest that yo...

2011-10-29T21:59:06.600-07:00

Yes self soothing but I would also suggest that you search for our radio show "The Double Life" on Global Talk Radio and also work on the limiting abuse exercises in The Love Safety Net Workbook.

Kim Cooper
http://www.narcissismcured.com

Hi Kim, My narcissistic partner often pulls the si...

2011-10-29T06:43:37.998-07:00

Hi Kim,
My narcissistic partner often pulls the silent treatment, for days on end. Currently this time is nearly three weeks. It drives me insane, and it is a constant battle to stay strong, when I feel so unloved, uncared about and ignored. He left a couple of days ago for a 5 day sporting trip, no goodbye, no nothing, and no contact at all while away. I really do feel like it's not worth it and I deserve better sometimes. I guess I need to try the self soothing techniques? Appreciate your advice. Debbie

Hmmm, I wonder why his behavior is controlling y...

2011-10-28T00:16:52.124-07:00

Hmmm,

I wonder why his behavior is controlling yours to the point where you say that you cannot put any of our methods in practice? I suggest that you go back to the books and start looking at your own self soothing and goal setting and not let him have so much control over you. It sounds like he is getting a lot more attention for this behavior than he needs to!

Hang in there!

Kim Cooper
http://www.narcissismcured.com

Well I have not wrote anything in reply for a long...

2011-10-27T18:59:45.646-07:00

Well I have not wrote anything in reply for a long time-I have most of your ebooks and I must say that the info I found very helpful but I have a problem that threatens to destroy my marriage completely.At first all the suggestions from the books really helped us(my husband and I have been married for 36 years)For most of our marriage My husband has been totally addicted to alcohol.On a site from your site I found the Seven weeks to Sobriety by Joan Mathews Larson-nutritional support for alcohol addiction.My husband listened to her video on her site and was amazed by how much it fit him,so he decided to try her program. Well it worked and we had some alcohol free monthes and I was really able to work on being loving and kind and we were enjoying each others company once more-but then he would just choose to not take the nutritional supplements and drink or sometimes drink even though he took the supplements.
when he drinks it is usually 7+ Canadian beer per day,sometimes more to the point of being ill the next day not eating or only junk food.that isn't the worst of it though,as long as he is drinking or has a hangover I am not able to put into practice any of the good advice from the books to deal with the narcissism(And that is just about every day now!) It is to the point now that I don't even want to try anymore as he is very emotionally and mentally and verbally abusive when he has alcohol. I don't feel it would be safe to leave and I have tried the suggestions on how to get them to leave and that hasn't worked!! As nothing reaches him now,Just wondering if you might have any suggestions?? Is there anything in your books that I need to take another look at?
Thank you for your consideration
Sharlane

I learned they weren't audio the hard way :( B...

2011-10-25T08:50:55.090-07:00

I learned they weren't audio the hard way :(
But that's ok, I just haven't had a minute to figure it out. Hopefully after work tomorrow. I will try!
I'm assuming just load and print from my computer?

Sorry technology can be a bit harder for me at times.
Looking forward to them though! I will keep in touch!

Hey anon, Hey I am glad you came back too. Wasn&...

2011-10-24T16:08:33.351-07:00

Hey anon,

Hey I am glad you came back too. Wasn't that excellent advice!

The CD's have PDF's on them and not audio files. We are however in the process of getting the books into print which is very exciting!

I am the anonymous mom n law,. I'm sorry I'...

2011-10-23T21:21:00.672-07:00

I am the anonymous mom n law,. I'm sorry I've took so long to come back here! I just found the reply from the anon to me above!! Thank you so much for sharing! I so want to handle this correctly! I live them both!! Please check back here,. I may have questions for u and Kim! :(

I came back to say my three CDs arrived this weekend. They were actually staying a couple nights with me (a first in awhile!) I saved them to take to work and listen on my lunch hour! Starting with the Safety Net! I am praying good will come!
Thanks Kim!!

To Anon with the daughter with the husband with NP...

2011-10-11T22:59:01.712-07:00

To Anon with the daughter with the husband with NPD:

I feel so badly for you, because I have a husband with strong NPD tendencies, and it worries my parents a great deal. A little over a year ago, I took our infant son and stayed with my parents for about six days. Shortly after, I found Kim and Steve's materials and they helped me so much.

I asked my parents to read "Back from the Looking Glass" to help me to parent him. Luckily, I have amazing parents who are willing to forgive his past actions when he shows progress.

Prior to that, I had reached out to some of his family members because some events made them aware of his behavior. At first, it seemed great to have them on my side. However, I soon learned that their way of dealing with things was to tell me to yell at him more. As Kim will tell you, this does not work. When I tried to tell them that, they would not listen. I even sent them some of the materials and tried to explain what I was doing. It became more and more clear that they weren't listening to my point of view and saw me as weak for trying to build an attachment with him. They told me they were shunning him because of his treatment of me. When I asked them to treat him with compassion, they shunned me as well.

This ended up having a happy ending, because this dysfunction started to make me realize why my husband didn't trust anyone. When I took his side, instead of theirs, he began to trust me and things have been much better (although we still have work to do).

I have a couple of points to make about this. First, I would be cautious about being too open with his Mother. While she may seem precious on the surface, she has contributed to his condition. My Mother-in-law babies my husband terribly because his Father was so terrible to the family. They all make excuses for the Father of the family who has a SEVERE case of NPD. He is the worst example my husband could have as a role model, other than being a serial killer.

Also, try not to be too critical of your son-in-law. My family has done that at times, out of concern for me. That has made my situation worse, and I have asked them to understand that he didn't have a good upbringing and to please give him some slack. He has started bonding more with them, as they are making an effort on both sides.

The best advice I can give is to present this to your daughter with love to her and her family and to let her know you are there to help her to get through this. Don't make him the enemy, but someone who needs your help to get him to grow up in areas that he has not had to in the past.

Hi anon, I really feel for you. Please check out t...

2011-10-06T17:10:02.070-07:00

Hi anon, I really feel for you. Please check out the limiting abuse section in the Love Safety Net Workbook. Steve used to be the same but over time all of the exercises I teach in the workbook has brought his interest back to me.

Kim Cooper
http://www.NarcissismCured.com

Kim, I have a narcisstic wife that seems like the...

2011-10-06T12:35:42.006-07:00

Kim,

I have a narcisstic wife that seems like there is no man on this planet she will not flirt with. There are a couple of guys that she always get attention from and it almost like she would rather have them than me. How should I respond when this happen? I've already read your great books but they does not help with the emabarasment of wife flirting in your face.