Why Narcissists Don't Care ...

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Is it True that Narcissists Don't Care?

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Full Transcript of Show

The Love Safety Net
January 24, 2012

STEVE:    Hi everyone.  Welcome to The Love Safety Net.

KIM:    I'm Kim.


STEVE:    And I'm Steve.  In today's show, Kim says she is going to pry into my emotional world a little, so I can tell everybody a bit about the emotional stuff that was going on for me back in the days when Kim and I were having some really big problems in our relationship.


KIM:     Well, we get questions nearly every day, Steve, of people wanting you to share more about that, and you have managed to dodge them pretty well so far, but I think it's time you open up a little, eh?  


STEVE:    I am extremely reluctant; I appear here reluctantly, but we will do it because it is important stuff and we do need to share it, Kim.


KIM:    You’ll be okay!  


STEVE:    Thank you.


KIM:   But first off, we have a sale I would like to share with you. Here is our book that is in now print that we have been letting you know about in the last few shows.  We have had some feedback and some really good input from professional people and from our audience and because of that, our cover has now changed, and here is what Back From the Looking Glass looks like now.  Can you help me with that and see if we can position it so everyone can see it Steve?  


STEVE:    Okay. Yes it's a little bit glare-y.  


KIM:    Okay, so I think the new cover is a really good move and it was a good suggestion, because instead of having us on the cover (small laugh) it actually has information ... it says 13 Steps Toward a Peaceful Home, which is exactly what we are offering.  I think it gives a good idea of what you are getting inside this book.  


STEVE:    Mmm.


KIM:      That has left us in a little bit of a situation though, where we have about 100 copies of this one with the old cover. They are brand new, but since the cover has changed we are offering them for only $14.99 delivered - to our Australian customers only…sorry everyone else.  But if you live in Australia, this is a great chance for you to pick up a copy and particularly if you want more than one copy -- say maybe for family or friends -- they are only $14.99 delivered to anywhere in Australia.  And so everybody else doesn't miss out, we are also running a sale on this—the same book but with the new cover—which is still Back From the Looking Glass. Both versions have been newly updated, new information, organized a little bit better.  I have  had a lot of help and we are really proud of what we have come up with.  It is now our 9th edition, but the first edition in print and not an e-book.  If you want one with a new cover, we have a special and that is 20% off.  But that is only for the next few days, so you really need to get in and order them today.  You can purchase this version too if you live in Australia but this special is also good anywhere in the world. The total will be include shipping, but you will get 20% off our usual retail price.  


STEVE:    So have a look at the buttons below, and press the right button.  


KIM:    (laughing) I will mark it really clearly for them, I promise, Steve.


STEVE:   Thank you.  So back to our show, Kim.  I was saying before that I am reluctantly here to talk about a whole bunch of the emotional stuff that was going on for me as a man or as the guy who was the narcissist in the relationship, and you being the codependent.  It isn't something I enjoy talking about.  It is a long time ago for us, Kim.  


KIM:   Mmm.


STEVE:   I mean, I suppose we should start by just saying that.  It feels like an eternity ago in many ways that we were having so much trouble with our relationship, because now we are a team.  We are a really good team.  We work together.  We are really good friends.  We rely on each other.  Things have come a really long way.  This is no B.S., we are really good friends.  But let me get back to what is a good starting point.  Maybe when you first started looking for help when you could see things weren't going really good for us and maybe there were some cracks appearing around the edges in our relationship.  


KIM:    (laughing) "Cracks appearing around the edges"?  It had been 10 years of sheer hell, come on!  

KIM:    Well, I talked to people for many years, but I think the beginning was when I discovered that how you were behaving was symptoms of a disorder, when I first started learning about Narcissistic Personality Disorder and that this was really the problem.  I guess coming from a medical family growing up, I had always heard that an accurate diagnosis is 90% of the cure.  So I had a lot of hope at that point. I thought, good, I am going to have a bit more understanding of this now.  But I was really quite wrong.  When I started talking to people and getting advice and going and seeing support agencies and whatnot and counselors and doctors, everything they said to me was really very negative—extremely negative—and I think to make it simple in my mind back then, I think the biggest question I first wanted to know is just how and why you could be doing the things that you were doing.  I mean, I knew it had been bad, but I didn't even really know how bad it had been until I discovered more about what was going on.  You read about that in Back From the Looking Glass how -- like I discovered this and what happened.  I knew that you were putting me down and putting the kids down and you were extremely critical of us, and fairly aggressive at home, but I hadn't really realized that you were also doing that to other people.  You were putting me down behind my back, and you were blaming me for a lot of stuff.  And you had even made moves to find another place to live without telling me—sort of a spare time place to live—without telling me, so you could just kind of come and go whenever you wanted.  And there was a lot of stuff that I discovered that was very upsetting, so I guess the question in my head was just how and why.  And I think that's fairly normal, I have learned now.  When people first discover their partner may has symptoms of narcissism or Narcissistic Personality Disorder, they really are wondering that.  You know, how can they be doing this, and why are they doing this?  And I think the answer that you are given, or that I was given most of the time by the professionals that I spoke to, was very unsatisfactory.  They were just saying that you didn't care.  


STEVE:    Mmm.


KIM:     And that really didn’t help.


STEVE:      So just let me jump in there.  So when you are saying the people you were asking were very negative, were they negative about me, or were they negative about our relationship, or were they negative about you?  


KIM:      Well, they were negative about you  They were saying I should just completely write you off.  But they were also very negative toward me, particularly for me just having an interest in why you might be doing what you were or for thinking maybe I could help, or that maybe I could change things, or maybe by understanding I could fix things.  People were very critical of that and—I found—bitter.  They were very bitter and nasty, and talked very much like I was just kidding myself.  


STEVE:    So there was sort of an idea you were kidding yourself believing you could find some answers, right?   Is that fair to say?


KIM:      Yeah.


STEVE:     Right.  So that would have made you feel—well I know what you are like, Kim, because you don't like letting a mystery go unsolved.  You like to try and find answers to things. (laughing).


KIM:    (laughing) Yeah.


STEVE:    But that must have been really disheartening and deflating.  


KIM:    Well, it was shocking.  As I say, it was a really most unsatisfactory response I found, that everybody just kept saying you didn't care and that people with this disorder just didn't care, and it was some kind of complete major fault or flaw in you, and that I really just had to accept that.  Really, that didn't help me at all.  
So you're right.  I am the detective and I don't like leaving stones unturned.  So I journeyed into that, and I don't think I really realized what a dark place it was going to take me to, putting myself in your shoes back then. Because when I saw the things you were doing, and how long they had gone on, I was really shocked at how quickly and easily you had just kind of discarded all the trust and all the love between us.  And how little our love seemed to mean to you when I knew that you did care. I knew you did care about the kids and I knew you did care about me.  So as I kind of searched in my heart and in my mind, the only thinking I could really come up with is that a really long time ago you just completely had given up on love.  And the hope of ever being able to trust somebody, or to have a fair and good, loving relationship.  That was a really dark place to be. I couldn’t even really put myself there for very long.  


STEVE:  Yeah, yeah.


KIM:   It was just in a recent interview I did with Margie Casados on Women of g+, that she was asking these questions.  After answering them I thought it would be really good if maybe we could get you to talk a little bit more about those times as well.  


STEVE:    Sure.


KIM:    Because that was how I saw it.


STEVE:    Yeah.  Well that dark time that you pointed out, it was interesting because, Kim, I hope I am not telling this story backward here, but you really did put yourself in my shoes and realized I was in a dark place but I think to be completely honest I didn't think I was in a dark place. I would just pretend that I wasn't in a dark place, where really I was.  And I think the more we have learned about this and the more I have thought about my particular situation and the more I have heard from people writing to us on our site and in our blogs, etc, the more I know that how much darkness we carry with us for so long without realizing it.  


KIM:   Mmm.


STEVE:   And that does come from somewhere else and it does get transferred later.  And I think I look back for me in many ways to the times when I was growing up.  I grew up in a time when my parents had a lot of infidelity going on, to be direct.  Both my mother and father had their stories and there was firsthand experiences I had and I could see that there was no trust in my family whatsoever, and it's good you hit on that word, trust there, Kim.  I grew up in a family where there was no trust whatsoever.  A lot of the infidelity, which caused intrigue and caused distrust and hate.  And my parents brought me up in that world.  It was very painful and there were stepparents and the whole, complicated situation with that.  Now I don't want to particularly single my parents out because we are talking about the 60s to 70s and early 80s and I think that was a very immoral time—an extremely immoral time—where a lot of things were being experimented with. You have talked about it before, Kim, with you being from California.  You talk about the "hot tub" culture and the "swinging" culture and porn became such a massive thing in the 1970s.  It sort of branched out into film and it became more popular.  It became prestigious with the Playboy and Penthouse magazines.  It became sort of like a high price consumer item.  In terms of an immoral culture, it translated through into how people were behaving and we try not to be preachy….right?  We do our best not to preach here, but that culture—the moral culture that western society is based on—is about nurturing children in a loving environment.  For centuries we have known that is what kids  need.  For me, I didn't really get that. I didn't get that level of trust between my parents and even my siblings and my wider family.  So that translates into all sorts of pain I carried through.  You know, this all happened well before I met you.


KIM:      Mmm.


STEVE:    You know, a decade or more before I met you.  So that is where we have identified that pain. For me, the guilt of what I did to you Kim is really the hardest bit to talk about.


KIM: Mmm.  But I think you felt guilty even before that.  And you were carrying a lot of emotional hurt.  It's like you had sort of given up on the idea that you could ever have a happy ending, or that happily ever after wasn't going to be real or wasn't going to be possible for you, really before you had even started.


STEVE:   Absolutely, Kim. No happily ever after.  That was B.S.  It was a fairly tale.  


KIM:     Yeah.  And I worry now because I see children now becoming cynical, even younger and younger. And that really concerns me.  I think it was really important where you said it was the style or it became prestigious—pornography and swinging and all those things in the 70s became prestigious.


STEVE:    And popular.  


KIM:   And popular.  And I don't know if those times were any more immoral than our times now. I think we still have those problems.  And of course they were around before the 70s, but I think for me that really defined it.  It was in the 70s where they made like it was fashionable and it was prestigious and it was actually something that rich, well-to-do, cool people did, when really it was just pretty grubby and really hurt a lot of people, and really hurt a lot of relationships, hurt a lot of kids and hurt a lot of families.  People did come to recognize that.  So that it all then sank into the background. It wasn't sort of promoted overtly as being really fashionable or stylish anymore, but the cat was out of the bag.  


STEVE:  Yeah, for sure. 


KIM:    It had been initiated.  We had the swingers clubs and we had Playboy and Hustler magazine and it was not going to go away. It had been introduced and of course it only has gotten worse with people's ability to access that stuff privately online.  


STEVE:   Mmm.  


KIM:    And I remember growing up in my family there wasn't the infidelities and stuff.  My father was quite religious, but he even had like a Playboy calendar on the wall of his den, when he had two daughters and a wife.  And I really found that extremely disturbing and it took me years to come to terms with that on an emotional level, because to me that just seemed such a incredible betrayal of my mother.  


STEVE:    Sure.


KIM:    A disrespect toward my mother. 


STEVE:  Well, you as a child wouldn’t have been able to figure that out in your own head.


KIM:  No.     


STEVE:    That kind of concept of why he would have a picture of another woman naked on his wall.  


KIM:    Yeah, well , an image of a naked woman is so powerful.  You know, it had something like a goddess about it.  Normally we don't walk around without clothes on, so who is this person that is just so amazing and powerful and important she can stand there on my father's wall without her clothes on?  You know?  We went to church and he taught us about God, but it was like she was his God.


STEVE:    Yeah, wow.


KIM:   That's what it looked like.  And it took me many years for me to realize how deeply disturbing that really was to me.  But even 10 years later there is no way he would have done that, and I even think he probably would have even been ashamed that he had, but back then he had been carried away with the fashion.  


STEVE:   That's a good point.  It had become so established in our western culture.


KIM:     Yeah.  Playboy was so mainstream in the 70s; it was so just what everybody was doing.  I think a lot of people just really lost their way and lost their head about it.


STEVE:    Sure.  Sowed a lot of bad oats, I think.  And let's not be too judgmental because I want to keep it on where it's going with this radio show, but we do have to be a little bit judgmental because as the children who grow up in that particular immoral phase of our western society, we are still carrying a lot of hurt from that.  And I think we can't figure that out, you know?  It's not something we had the emotional maturity, as you as a young girl in your dad's den, or me watching my parents play the field while they were supposed to be taking care of my sister and I, that whole world just cannot be understood by children. 


KIM:  Mmm.


STEVE:   And we are still carrying it now. I should just jump in here, Kim, and explain to the audience if you are new to our work, that one of the concepts we have and we talk about regularly in our shows and in our books is the concept of a reparative relationship or in old-fashioned terms "a good example".  So a reparative relationship is if you had a grandmother and grandfather who were respectful of each other and you grew up close to them and they loved you and there was reciprocal love and respect between you and other people in the family, and there wasn't a whole bunch of abuse going on, you are more than likely to fall into or to seek out a relationship that is based on the similar values of respect with one another.  And the same is true if you have also grown up in an abusive home.  If you have an example of parents who are abusive toward each other, it is more than likely you are going to learn that.  That is all pretty basic research that is going on now.  But Kim and I have taken it to a new level with our work where we are trying to be a good example—not just for our kids—I mean, we are absolutely doing it for our kids but we have taken it to the point where we have e-books and print books where people can learn from some of the mistakes we made as well.  


KIM:      Because if you didn't grow up with those role models—with your grandparents or your parents—where are you going to learn it from, where are you going to put it back together?  You know just getting back to that emotional stability, and that lack of emotional security.  That confusion, if you are seeing the sexual relationships between the people in your life that are older than you --when you are young-- being filled with betrayal, being filled with hurt, being filled with insecurity and a lack of security—where are you going to find that security from?  


STEVE:    Mmm.


KIM:   And I think that was sort of the situation I realized we had found ourselves in.  We didn't have those role models.  And the chances and odds for us having a successful relationship or marriage were very slim.  And the only option being offered to us was that I was to completely write you off and say, "Oh, he just doesn't care and I should just chuck him on the scrap heap”, because that is what everybody was telling me I had to do.  And I was very upset and very hurt and angry at a lot of the stuff you were doing then.  But I just wasn't ready to ‘chuck you on the scrap heap’, because I really knew you were damaged.  And I knew I wasn't perfect.  I knew I was damaged too.  I didn't even know back then how.  So that was when I just started on the research and said, okay well let's find good role models then.  Let's look for good role models.  Let's piece it all together.  What does a healthy relationship look like?  


STEVE:  And a healthy relationship is based on trust.  And that is where we left off our story.  I had no trust of women in particular, of you, or of any woman being somebody I could trust for the future—for the happily ever after which I didn't believe in anyway.  So that issue of trust is the huge thing.  I wasn't really aware of it.  It really took your work and your research, Kim, and your decision to decide that I was worth it, which I thank you for every day.  
But Kim, if you had decided to chuck me on the scrap heap, it would have been a self-fulfilling prophesy, because I would have hated you, I would have been bitter, I would have done anything to ruin your life.  So fortunately, you chose the other choice, and that was to try and understand it.  Understanding is one of the great virtues we have as human beings.  Understanding is a really, really powerful tool if you can grasp it.  And I think, Kim, your level of understanding, or at least your inquisitiveness and your curiosity to know why I was so damaged really helped uncover that I really had no trust of anybody. I didn't trust women.  And I think that was one of the keys you really found in the end was I didn't trust women full stop.  And that wasn't personal against you necessarily, but it had to do with issues that I had growing up and other family members in particular.  Or it was at least based from there.  


KIM:    And as I mentioned in the interview with Margie, that was a really dark place when I took those steps in your shoes. I don't think I realized how dark a place it was going to take me to.  I couldn't actually stay there for very long.  I went oh-oh, okay, I am really going to need some help here.  I guess that is why the first chapter of Back From the Looking Glass is called "Going Where His Angels Fear to Tread", because I really did embark on something I knew wasn't going to be easy and I knew it wasn't going to be solved from me just telling you you could trust me.  


STEVE:   Right.


KIM:    When I wasn't behaving in a way that was trustworthy.  I might have not have been lying to you and I might have been faithful to you and all of that, but there were other ways I was letting myself down, there were other ways I wasn't being responsible to myself, and so why should you trust me?  


STEVE:    Yeah, that's right.  We will let you buy the book to hear more of the details about that, but that was really, really a big question, Kim.  Because there had to be that point where the trust had to get built again from scratch.


KIM:    Yeah.


STEVE:    And even though Kim and I had had about 10 years of history—10 years of unhappy memories mostly.


KIM:      Fighting, and fighting, and fighting.


STEVE:    Fighting and arguing and being completely at loggerheads.  But we still took that baggage of all those unhappy memories of 10 years into a place where we could start building some trust.  I mean, you were really the instigator of it. I was extremely reluctant to want to trust you.  I just wanted to sit in that comfortable seat of hate and obstinate.  


KIM:    Yeah, so tell us a little about the anger.  Because I know there was a lot of anger in that space, that you were feeling back then.  Because to feel that the world is unfair and you have given up on love before you have even really started, to me I guess that's why it was uncomfortable for me to stay in that place.  I realized to me it just felt like you must be so angry, even angry at God.


STEVE:    Certainly angry at women.  Angry at the whole world.  Angry at God.  Angry at anything.  I was angry at everything.  And not to deviate too much from this conversation, but I think a lot of addictions are formed from that place of hating.  And I was a tobacco junkie, porn junkie, marijuana junkie, alcohol junkie, sugar junkie—you know anything.  I would just become a junkie.  I didn't put a needle in my arm because I'm smart, but that seed of hate really leads you down a destructive path in so many ways. I really did hate the world.  You are right.  Thinking back to where I was at, I was really hating the kids as well.  I really resented the kids and it was really just the fact that I  had put myself there in many ways.  Based from the difficult childhood, the difficult emotional turmoil of what I just explained previously.  But I was just making the decision to hate.  And it meant that you suffered.  


KIM:      And it was self-perpetuating, really, because that hatred then got justified.  I mean, if you felt life had been so unfair to you, it justified you being unfair to other people. And then when you are unfair to other people, of course they are not trustworthy and they will let you down.  


STEVE:    And it keeps going.  


KIM:      So it goes into a downward spiral, doesn't it.  


STEVE:    Right.  Absolutely.  That's how it was for me.  And I have to say sorry.  


KIM:     (laughing)  Hey, it's okay. I wasn't behaving at my best then either.  But that brings something up for me, I just remembered before how at that time I was really looking for you to save me. I wanted you to make me feel emotionally secure.  And I was really disappointed and I felt betrayed and so angry at you that you wouldn't just be my Prince Charming and come and make me feel emotionally secure and make our happily ever after happen.  And I think that was a big shift when I realized how emotionally insecure you were—not only insecure but just completely desolate.  That you had actually given up completely on the hope of ever having the happily ever after, or of ever being able to trust anyone you were in a love relationship with.  That was really the point where I went, "hang on, I am going to have to be the hero here".  


STEVE:      Sure.  And I'm sure you weren't really happy about that  


KIM:      (laughing) Oh, not at all. It wasn't like oh wow, I want to be the hero.  That was really, really disappointing for me, because I had really wanted you to be the hero, or some other hero to come galloping into my life.  And it was a really big wake up call when suddenly I realized hang on, no, he is in such a dark place that I am really going to have to get my act together 100% completely and I am going to need to pull in as much support as I can possibly get, and I can't be making any more excuses for anything anymore.  


STEVE:   Right. 


KIM:      Because this is really serious.  This is as serious as someone drowning at the beach.  But it wasn't just you out there drowning, it was you and you were taking all of us with you.


STEVE: Yeah, absolutely.  And you know the whole emotional turmoil goes to what you were just saying about confidence.  I didn't see at the time and I'm sure you didn't see both of our confidence had been terribly shattered by the fact we weren't connecting on an emotional level.  


KIM:    Yep.


STEVE:    When you even decided it was time to take the lead, like you were just explaining, you didn't really have the confidence but you felt like you had no other option.  


KIM:    No, none.  None.


STEVE:  But I think for me and a lot of other guys out there, Kim.  I hope you guys will connect with this in some way:  Finding that confidence is really not easy.  If you don't work on your emotional intelligence or you haven't got somebody around you working on their emotional intelligence with you, you will find that finding that confidence is something that will always allude you.  And Kim, just the confidence to say I was wrong, I feel guilty, I feel ashamed.  I feel like maybe I'm making some wrong decisions.  Just the confidence to be humble wasn't even there for me.  And I think getting back to the topic we usually talk about—narcissism—you have to be confident in yourself and you have to know yourself to be humble. The whole problem going on with me is I didn't trust anyone, hated everybody, I was fearful of women, I didn't trust women.  That whole problem meant I didn't have the confidence to build anything different than that.  And I know for a fact a lot of guys are in that particular same situation and probably a lot of girls are too.  And if you are still watching this show guys, and you are still listening to what I've got to say, really trust me to find that confidence isn't easy, but it's what you have to do.  And the whole looking at the issue of trust, what we were talking about before, is really one of the first important steps  


KIM:   Well, I don't think you had any expectation, or any reason to have any expectation, that anybody was going to play fair with you if you did come out and do the right thing. And that was really the heart of the problem.  Even if you came out and admitted to me that you were scared, admitted to me you didn't know how to rescue me, admitted to me that you didn't know how to make me feel secure because you didn't feel secure yourself.  If you had come out and admitted you were embarrassed and ashamed of stuff you had done and there was stuff I didn't know about.  Nothing that had happened previously in your life could have led you to have any idea that that could go okay or that could be all right. I mean, maybe that's a subject for another show we will do soon.  
Because I know we had someone write in and want us to answer some questions about dealing with their teenage son and being able to tell the difference between what is normal, healthy, teenage narcissism and what stuff you need to look out for.  And maybe that's something we could get into a little bit more in that show.  But it's about modeling how to deal with shame and how to admit that you feel embarrassed or ashamed.  In reality, when you actually come out and do that, if you have genuine contrition—if you genuinely feel bad about what you have done and you genuinely want to make amends—most people will try and be understanding and try and forgive you.  But if a child has never been modeled that—if they have never been helped with that, if they have never had any experience of that.  If they have never had a parent to help them through that process, it's an incredibly difficult thing to do all on your own.  


STEVE:    Yeah, absolutely.


KIM:    And I agree with you. It's something that takes an enormous amount of confidence and courage that a lot of people just don't have.  And to demand your partner do that, particularly if you are angry with them and you are saying “You should admit you are wrong, and you should admit all the bad things you have done”, it's never going to happen.  They already don't know how to do that.  


STEVE:    Absolutely.


KIM:   Let alone when somebody is mad at them!  


STEVE:   And we would love to give you some suggestions about people who are able to model the ability to deal with shame and guilt.  Unfortunately, it's not just parents who sometimes don’t give a good example, but our whole system particularly with schooling, where the teachers are in a class of their own, in terms of the fact that they are staff, they are faculty and they are in charge.  And in that power hierarchy, very rarely do you get a teacher who offers themselves as a role model to a child growing up, saying, "Hey, I was wrong".  I mean, the whole role of a teacher is to say I am teaching you the right thing.  


KIM:     Yeah.


STEVE:    I am not singling out teachers, because I think teachers do a wonderful job and they really do have a tough job.  But just the system that they are set up in makes it very difficult for things to move forward and for children to learn that.


KIM:  And if they can't admit they are wrong, how much harder is it to admit they are embarrassed or admit they are scared, or admit they are feeling ashamed.  As you say, not just teachers—our politicians and our leaders—how hopeless are they at this?  


STEVE:   How often do you see a politician be contrite?


KIM:      Or say this is a situation where we need to use caution, because this is scary what's going on here.  Which is often the reality of the case.  


STEVE:    Mmm.


KIM:   And we are led to believe this is bad leadership and people won't trust in us, or they won't believe us if we are honest about our fear and our embarrassment or any of our more negative emotions, but really this isn't the case.  If somebody does know how to express those things—and when it is the appropriate time -- I mean it is not everybody that you want to be admitting these things to and of course and there is the appropriate time and place for it.  But knowing how to do that really is a vital leadership skill and is actually going to make people respect you better and trust you better and feel more secure with you around.  They are going to feel more secure with you as the leader.  And being a parent or being in a relationship, we need to be leaders.  We can't always be dependent on our spouse to take the lead.  


STEVE:  Yeah, that's right.  


KIM:    Particularly if they are behaving badly.  If they are in a bad way and the things they are doing are going to take your life to a bad place, maybe it's time you are the one that takes charge.


STEVE:   Sure.  And you know taking the lead is often not as difficult as you think, Kim, you just have to give it a try.  I know when I was giving up alcohol for the first time --I am an amateur footballer still as some of you know-- I thought my peers from the football club would instantly start needling me and giving me a hard time about not drinking, but you know what, Kim?  None of them said a word for an entire season. Not one of them said a single word that I wasn't drinking after the game. It just never came up. It was just one of those things where I was really surprised.  I thought someone would say, "Hey, how come you're not having a beer?" but it just didn't happen.  In many ways, me doing that led to a whole bunch of other guys saying, "Oh, I might try giving up the alcohol for a few months too, Steve."  And actually by not worrying about it (even though I was worrying about it) but by not trying to be a leader I ended up being a leader anyway.  But I had to find the confidence to be a nondrinker and be a football guy.  And that's a bit hard here in Australia, where we are from, and a lot of you know all about that.  And it was actually my parents who gave me a hard time for not drinking.  My parents said, "What's wrong with you, why are you not drinking?  Please have a glass of wine with me." (laughing)


KIM:    (laughing)


STEVE:    And you know these leadership roles get thrust upon you and confidence is so much a part of it.


KIM:    Well, thank you for being so honest with us, Steve, and opening up.  I hope we can do more of it.


STEVE:  Yeah, well, it wasn't really that comfortable.  


KIM:   It's not always so easy for me drawing you out, but I hope I have help bring a little bit of information out that is of interest and of use to people.  Because I know for me it really is good hearing you talk about it.  


STEVE:    Thanks.  And thanks for being so kind about it.


KIM:    Thank you.  Okay.  So you wrap up the show, not me ...


STEVE:    Thanks everyone for tuning in.  Thanks for all the great questions you have been sending in.  Keep them coming. We really appreciate it.  Don’t forget the book sale. There is a really good bargain on both of these. Click the buttons below.  All the info will pop up on screen.  Have a great day.


KIM:   And for how inexpensive we really work at keeping these books, there is so much information in here that if you are struggling in a difficult relationship or if you are having problems or you are fighting, for goodness sake!  Just do it.  It's not like a lot of money and it really is going to help you.


STEVE:   It really will.  And there are lots of testimonials to back that up.  Grab yourself a copy.  Do yourself a favor.  Thanks everyone!


KIM:      Bye!

124 comments:

  1. I hope this isn't too personal but I'm going to ask 2 questions.First off let me say as painful as it is to say,not too long ago I was going through much of the same (he's getting better now though)and I would like to know did Steve tell lies on you as well as talk behind your back?Did Steve have to take medication to get over that anger?
    I noticed that Steve actually is looking you in the eyes and asking you about your feelings while waiting to give a response he actually appears interested in your true feelings.Thank you Steve for checking in and being honest.I am aware now I need to reach out more to the help available to both he and I.I'm a-lot like you Kim
    I want to know why and I've been being empathetic only it still hurts for me.Does your books cover all or any of my questions?
    Kim tell Steve to write a book to men on how to stop hating women and be more secure so I can buy it as well as your books.I think that was more than 2 questions:)

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  2. Yes he was telling me a lot of lies (!) and no he did not go on medication for his anger. Steve did do anger management classes but that actually made things worse! I think that you will find a ton of information and all the answers you are looking for in our ebooks; Back from the Looking Glass and also The Love Safety Net Workbook and 10 Steps to Overcome Codependence. Steve hasn't written a book because honestly he has a lot of trouble explaining what happened - because really it was me who led the way. He might make a few more movies though if I prod him!

    I hope that you do decide to take the risk and get our books. I know that money is tight these days - but really they are very inexpensive for all the hard won advice they give! and we get a ton of testimonials. More than we can keep up with adding to our website in fact. You can come back here too and ask as many questions as you like if you need to!

    Hang in there!

    Kim Cooper
    www.NarcissismCured.com

    ReplyDelete
  3. I enjoyed the sharing on this video.My husband is relapsed back into alcoholism.I dont know how to deal with him. I feel like there are some similarities here. But am still unsure.He has cheated and is not himself.I dont know if you can help those of us determining narcisisim in regards to an alcoholic?
    Thanks,
    Rose

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes our books (especially Back from the Looking Glass) do deal with this directly and indirectly. Alcohol was a big part of the problem with Steve and I and I think - as Steve mentions in this movie - addictions are often a big part of this disorder.

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  4. I left a relationship of five years because of verbal abuse and alcoholism. It just became too hard and too toxic an environment for my children and myself.I tried so hard to stay and make it work but it took a toll on my soul. I still love him and miss him everyday. And yes, like Steve was, he is very angry with me and probably always will be. I tried to make him happy but in the end decided he is really an unhappy person and was not willing to seek help.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi I really feel for your situation. I know that a lot of people say our advice has helped give them closure - so hopefully if you keep reading you may find some solace and answers!

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  5. Okay, they don't care because they never learned from good examples of caring when they were growing up. So, we need to be more understanding of that and not get angry with them for not caring. Instead, we need to set a really good example of love and caring.
    Thanks Steve, for giving me hope that men really can become mature.

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    Replies
    1. Hi Suz,

      You may still get angry sure (-: but just understand that your anger is not what will change things. I would also say that besides understanding you will also need a lot of very practical and solid steps too - like setting solid boundaries and building a network of support in your community.

      Delete
  6. Thank You. It helps me understand my son-in-law a little better. I just wonder when he will ever accept that he can trust his wife and us. We are the only 3 people in his life who have cared about him and stood by him unconditionally.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For Steve the trust came pretty hard as you will read in our story. Someone with narcissistic tendencies needs to see that you can be tough and not just nice!

      Delete
  7. My mother had Narcissitic Personality Disorder, my brother has it and now my 26 year old daughter has it. It can be heredity. My daughter grew up with with love and attention, and she was cared for and was taught to care for others, she attended church and private Christian school, she exhibited some behaviors at a young age that we ignored or made excuses for. She is very difficult to deal with and has trouble keeping relationships but she never thinks she is wrong or at fault. Its hard, its sad and its heartbreaking.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The fact that you say her behaviors were ignored or made excuses for when she was a child tells me that perhaps you have not entirely escaped this problem in your family.

      Narcissism has it's partner disorder which is knows as codependence.

      The Steps in Back from the Looking Glass and the Love Safety Net Workbook were adapted from parenting techniques and so you may still find they offer some insight (perhaps into your part in the drama!) and also some help.

      Delete
  8. My parnter has left me now, after two years of arguments, just the cycle you have been talking about. I tried I think every which way to keep the arguments down low but it feels his actions wanted to escalate them all the time and yes of course I was the one to blame for everything. when he left he didnt even allow me two minutes meet up in person to say goodbye so its very painful to deal with all of this.

    I wish I had the skills to handle it all better.

    I just wonder how narcissists feel and think after a relationship? It seems so cold and cut off and done deal from his point of view.
    I cant bear the thought of not seeing him again or no hope in the future.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Someone with narcissistic tendencies has given up on the big picture being positive or fair and so this then justifies them grabbing love or pleasure wherever they can get it.

      They tend to forget very quick when a relationship ends because they usually don't leave unless there is someone else!

      As hard as this time is for you - it is a great chance for you to reclaim responsibility for your own emotions and learn that if you decide you want to be happy you can be - and that is not dependent on anyone else.

      Think about what makes you happy (besides being with him) and set yourself some goals now and work on them.

      Ironically this kind of focus and mind set is also very attractive and will ensure you are not alone for very long!

      Delete
  9. Thank you!!!! You are changing me, and as a result my partne is changing and as a result his brother-in-law is changing and as a result his sons are changing.....thanks for helping to change the world into a better more loving place.

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    Replies
    1. Your most welcome and I am very glad to hear it!

      Delete
  10. I have to say that this was an amazing show! Although I am left with a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach....I DON'T WANT TO BE THE HERO! I'm co-dependent you know! I want to be vindicated....to be right. LOL! Now I have to get the books ASAP!

    Thank you both...a light has been turned on!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It takes small steps and a lot of courage - but the journey has certainly been worth it for me!

      Delete
  11. So are you saying that it si not that they do not care, but that they don't know HOW to care or don't trust wnough to show it?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes something like that. But not trusting - which leads to anger and not caring then also leads to them doing things that mess up their life and end up causing them a lot of shame and guilt.

      So first off they need trust and hope restored - but also help to put their life back together step by step.

      Delete
  12. After having put up with sometimes verbally abusive and very confusing behaviour for many years, I figured out I was with a narcissist, whose father is a "monster narcissist!" Only recently has he given up on this relationship with his Dad being anything other than what it is & has been....(he is 48 now)and I am seeing that perhaps there is hope. We have a 25 year relationship that has morphed along the way. One episode of cheating that lasted about 6 months,that happened 3 years ago came very close to derailing the relationship. You feel like a real sucker when you take so much crap off someone, and trust is so hard to build after this, when you already have other hurts to overlook and then an affair with all the lying. I have never caught him in so many lies, and in fact, did not see him as a lier. Now I have to wonder...were all those years of trust undeserved? Has he been lying to me about other things all along? Kim, I read your "Through the Looking Glass" and thought the "team" approach to helping someone sounded good. However, his family & my family would or could not get involved,( his is "narcissicism central" my parents are dead, and my brother lives far away & barely knows him) He has no church or really close friends either. Hard to find a way in. Called the police years ago, but has never been necessary again since. (We currently live apart) Met the "woman" he cheated with, wow what a wake up call that was! What a skank! Before I found out who it was, he talked her up like she was something great....Steve, was this just to hurt me, or do you really believe he thought she was all these great things (and not bedroom compliments either!) Maybe just narcissistic "supply?" Mercy, how hurtful to be compared to that low quality & not come out on top! I guess they were feeding each others egos.

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    Replies
    1. Family is not usually a great support network anyway and you need groups and people for you to join more than him!

      Delete
    2. Hi Anon, I feel for you and hope we can help. It's good to question his motivations surrounding chasing the other woman, but only up to a point. Whenever the emotional connection is not strong between you both, there is a danger that poor choices will be made. He may have been selfish, simply wanting gratification? He may have been trying to fill an emotional need? Who knows?
      If you can find the strength within yourself to show him that you are stronger than that, that you have enough emotional intelligence to not seek the affections of others, you have turned the pain of the infidelity into a glorious virtue that becomes a powerful tool for you. You can be the guiding light, the good example, the strong one. Maybe he needs that for a little while until you get in sync. It's hard to say without knowing more about where he is at.
      I too have a terribly narcissistic father who I have recently stopped talking to. It's a very difficult gig to have a poor example as a dad. I feel for him about that. I am lucky that Kim has found the resources to be my guiding light. Without her, I am lost. But I be all I can for her too. She has allowed me the room to be important to her. We rely on each other, there is little room for bitterness. Steve.

      Delete
  13. Dear Kim & Steve,

    I really appreciate what you are doing, it has been helping me a lot to understand.
    And I still learn from it every day. THANK YOU!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Thank´s a lot! I have a question: If a man with narcissistic behavior is sulking or playing som kind of black mailing game by being aloof and nonchalant...in this case I belive is a game that he is not unintrested in me( but I´m not sure sometimes)...but he shows me some signals of the opposite...he want me to adore him and to run after him and show my self weak so that he can feel confident and safe....and I just cant do that because i have a feeling (experience) he will never stop using this black mail game against me if I teach him that the game is giving him the fix that he need.
    I want him to trust me (he dont, but doesn´t admit that openly but I can see he is checking me to find out If there might be other men in my life) But I cant make him trust me it seems like. So when he stop calling me and stuff I just ignore him I let him come back by himself...this is where I am now and it doesnt seem to progress much from this "come and leave, come and leave-game"
    I have your E-book to work with but this part is still a mystery to me..
    Much love to you guys! You are the most sweet and adoring couple I can think about...and your work Is a true blessing!
    Lotta from sweden

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  15. Get on with your own life and stay focused on your goals! Showing him he can trust you is not only about other men but also that you have self respect are not going to go to pieces every time he doesn't call! Greeting him warmly when you do see him and showing him you like and accept him in that way with your smile and tone of voice will keep him coming back for more!

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  16. Hello
    Thank you for providing this information and insight as there doesnt seem to be support for this particular issue, NP.

    It is very difficult when you are in a situation and seeing it for what it is. I stepped baack for a bit and watched as if I was watching a video and with research and watching I thought my goodness he is text book narcissist. He saw some of my paperwork about NP and he got annoyed at me how I was feeling about it all rather than saying something like I am sorry you feel like this. It seemed to just confirm it to me more. I have tried not reacting in discussions. not to raise the level of them, tried saying stop, dont talk to me like that. Tried putting my hand up and saying I will talk later, etc etc but all this has done is made him turn things up even more. I am often reduced to tears on the floor and he mimics me crying or calls me names. He often says sorry aferwards or next day and admits he is a handful at these times, I said, I cant do this relationship on my own anymore....
    I need help, what to do?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is NOT an easy problem to tackle and you cannot leave the onus for change on him! You need to follow the steps in Back from the Looking Glass and keep practicing them unto you master them. I used to be just like you describe but now I would not cry on the floor in front of anyone! If his bad side can reduce you to that how on earth will you ever get his better side to trust you? You need to get much much tougher and realize that it is going to need to be you who saves yourself now!

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  17. I forgot to say, he is so hard hearted, spiteful, has such a temper, sulks even hides behind the curtain so I cant see him when I try to find him. he talks through me, wont give me a chance to speak when I eventually do, god forbid you have your own idea or opinions, even if I agree with him, he scoffs and scurries off.....he does all this to hurt and upset me more, afer I pick myself up and stop myself crying, self sooth, he then comes to say sorry or holds me but I feel kind of resentful by then
    would so love your thoughts as all of this is draining me totally

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Self soothing is only one part of our advice - you need to set solid boundaries when you are feeling better. Work through the steps and keep going back to them - remember the dance of grief? This is not going to change without you finding new strength in yourself!

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  18. thank you kim and steve, where else understands about this more than here, no where I have seen....

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  19. I am Amazed at what I have learned in one day after 8 years of his mixed emotions, the yelling, the drinking, the lies, the lack of trust. I knew there was a issue with his emotions but could never put my finger on it. A friend told me today about narcissism. That is my husband, it explains alot of what I have been going through in my marriage. I have stayed in this relationship because I do love him and that he has no one else. No old close friends or any family members that trust him. My next step is to get your book and go from there. I know it won't be easy, but I am willing to try one more time.

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  20. Hi Kim, I hate to admit it, but even after living your advice and doing my best to erect boundaries, build trust, show I cared about him, etc., our relationship progressed from purely verbal abuse to physical. He physically would not allow me to leave the room even if I said I just needed a minute to myself, he actually became more suspicious when I tried to self soothe. What boundaries can you set when he is actually physically violent? I did call the police, and it only made him behave for a little while. Finally I broke down and just let him leave the country (his visa expired, long story) so I have basically given up. Thus what I want to say is this: I think what Steve said about the reasons why narcissists behave the way that they do is completely true and accurate, but even after trying to "gap parent" it just wasn't enough in my case. Nevertheless, your advice has helped me to be stronger and realize 1) he wasn't going to change and 2) I didn't want him anymore if it wasn't going to change. Some stories have bitter sweet endings...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes bitter sweet indeed - but I think that you being stronger and realizing you don't need him - as well as him leaving you in peace - is a very positive ending never the less. It may not be what you first hoped for but the fact that you have escaped the nightmare you were in is very very good news to me. You would not believe how many people who stay stuck where you were for years.

      So your partner's problem with narcissism may not have been cured but yours has! And even better yet is that I you have the skills now that you will not let yourself get into this situation again!

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  21. Dear Kim,
    For years ten years I have been in an emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically abusive marriage. We have 2 small children ages 4 and 2. I first heard about you 4 years ago and I have Back From the Looking Glass. I have read them and tried so desperately but have failed at implementing them.I just need some advice. A year and a half ago I left and called the police. I left for three months with no contact.In that situation the kids were so little, I had no licence, and no job, so I went to stay with my mom. He convinced me he was changed and I went back. He then cheated on me with a girl and I stayed through it the whole time. This was during the first three months that I was back. I really felt trapped when this was happening and I really wished I had left when he was doing this but I didn't. I felt so bad and guilty for leaving the first time and I was afraid if I left he would 100 % replace me. The way the details of him and his girlfriend's relationship played out, suggested that he was literally replacing me in three months! He told me it was not cheating because I left. He also said God was punishing me for leaving him.(Every day I thought he might kill me, thats why i left). I was heartbroken at the lack of attachment he had and I then developed ptsd. Well I secretly went to counseling and got the ptsd under control over the next year, but the verbal, emotional and physical abuse continued to escalate again. When I first came back and he was cheating, he was not very angry at all and he turned himself into this new amazing understanding person. (But of course he wasnt with me in his mind, although he was physically there.)Everything culminated into last week when he punched me and threw me down and I got injured in front of the kids. I finally ran outside and called 911. He was arrested and put in jail for 2 days. His mom bailed him out and now he is staying in a homeless shelter because nobody will let him stay with them. (His mom lives far away). At this point he has options such as a batterer's class and the possibility of serving more jail time.It will all depend on what the judge says when he goes back for his sentencing for violating his probation for domestic abuse. From the shelter the only contact we have had is with texting him that I love him and only want him to get help. Frankly the stuff he is saying to others is so disappointing. He says that he is not like other abusers and that he just got angry that day. He told his friend that he doesnt know why I am so upset because he looked it up on the internet and other women have broken bones but I dont. Its like he doesnt get it. He acts as if this was the only battering incident and all the punching in the head never happened. He says a lot of nice things too and promises, that I doubt he is able to follow through with.
    I love him and want this to work, but have lost faith that he can. If he were going to be truly remorseful than by now he would have been. Just so you know, there is no substance abuse involved in the situation, but he does play video games for maybe 13-14 hours in a day when unemployed, and 5-6 when employed.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Anon,

      You need to write to the judge and let him know about those comments and also his video game addiction. You cannot agree to take him back at this stage no matter what anyone says. You can tell him that you love him and will stand by him but that you do not know how to deal with his aggression and violence and so you need protection and help from the police and that he is going to have to deal with them now and do what they tell him he has to. You can even say that you wish you knew how to help but it is too big a problem for you and you are frightened of what will happen to him and your kids if you allow this to continue..

      This is tough love but you need to stand strong.

      Do not tell the court or the police what to do (they don't like that) but you do need to tell them that you need protection and that you cannot deal with this by yourself.

      Delete
  22. I tried to organize people in the community to help me "discipline" him gradually as we went along, but the system is designed so that you have to charge the person. He said if i put him in jail he would come out and kill me. I tried to get men in our church to confront him but they would not. They said that had already been done once and now they said he needed to go to jail. I also worried about what would happen to me after the people left and then felt more hopeless. Right now I have a protective order in place. Calling the police for any reason has always been hard because he would take the keys unplug the phone and hold me hostage. Eventually I would get so tired that I would give up. It starts with verbal abuse and name calling which was far worse than the physical. And I was not sure how to "discipline" for that, since I cannot call the police to tell him to stop calling me names and just being mean. I thought of calling social service to get them to tell him that screaming and yelling at kids is wrong and that what he is doing is hurting them, but knowing how vindictive he is, I feared that somehow it would backfire on me.
    A lot of the things you talked about doing puzzled me. Like how do you go out and make connections when the person wont let you? He made a rule that the kids could never be watched by anyone but me, and he refused to watch them as well. What do you do for that? He would never let me go anywhere because he said that when he wasnt working he expected us to be there to spend time with him. Family time meant sitting around him while he played games. His mental games were really starting to hurt my four year old. I worried that if I stood up for myself, then my kids would see constant conflict and raging as retaliation and I wanted to minimize their exposure to that. YOu mentioned how you put netnanny on Steve's computer, but if I had done that he would have taken it off and told me not to touch his stuff. He would have been a raging lunatic.
    When he screamed and yelled at the kids for just being kids and spilling drinks, crying, putting shoes on the wrong feet, etc..I always stood up for them and said that I would not tolerate the way he was treating them. And that would just turn into a big fight between me and him. Obviously me standing up to him and saying I wont tolerate it was not a big enough consequence for him since he felt he had that right to talk to them that way. So my question is, how would I have handled that situation? Based on the position I am in now, how do you think I can best help him to recover? And after hearing this story, do you think he is too far gone? Does he seem similar to Steve? I would really appreciate your input. I know you are busy, but I really believe that you are one of the only people that understands abuse.

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    Replies
    1. No this does not sound similar to Steve and sounds much worse.

      You need to ..

      1. Write to our help desk at support@narcissismcured.com and let them know you purchased Back from the Looking Glass in the past and that I have said they should give you a free update of the download.

      2. Please read the last chapter - which has been recently updated - on two ways you can leave safely.

      3. I would strongly advise that you use some ideas from the first method - but if he is still living with you follow the steps from the second. You need to follow the steps exactly and make sure he doesn't know where you and the kids are staying.

      You need to be very strong and very centered and brave now for yourself and for your kids. You need to also be sure you make the police aware of your plans.

      You being strong and centered and brave is the best way you can help your whole family now.

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    2. Apologies for the incorrect email address for our help desk in my last reply.

      Please email info@narcissismsupport.com ASAP.

      Thanks.

      Delete
    3. Dear Kim,
      Thank you for replying. I have tried to go to that website but something is wrong, it doesnt work. I also tried just clicking on the link directly from the main page, but the link is not active. Perhaps the site is down at this moment, I dont know.

      Delete
    4. Sorry this is not a webpage but an email address
      for you to contact;

      info@narcissismsupport.com

      Delete
    5. Oh...sorry...I just had a blonde moment! I am just a little stressed right now and my mind went blank for some reason. Thanks for the fast reply.

      Delete
    6. Dear Kim,
      I am patiently awaiting the material from the help desk, but in the interom, have some pivotal decisions to make, and dont know what to do. My husband is still at the homeless shelter. He is talking all kind of flowery nice talk to everyone and has enrolled in anger management classes.I think that this is only to look good in front of the court. I dont believe anger management will do anything for him at all. But I know when the trial happens he wants the judge to give him less jail time, or preferably none. I want to believe that his heart is in the place so badly. But his comments to his friends are haunting me. For some reason he feels that Im trying to punish him and he cant understand why. He is now thinking that he is the victim. I am thinking about boundaries for the future and wondering what is reasonable for me to set. I have a chance to change the terms of my protective order next week.

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    7. I can allow more contact, but ask for supervised visitation of the kids and not have him come to the house for up to two years. How do I know if he is "ready" for more contact? I guess I always doubt in my own mind what is reasonable for me to ask of him and what is not. How can I "parent" him, if we are not together physically? Also, there is a class theat I do believe will help him and he says that he will go, but it starts in augest and is 26 weeks long and in another state a few hours away. I have trouble envisioning him following through with this. I guess what I am asking of you is guidance and reassurance. I feel so lost and no one will help me set boundaries or even discuss boundaries with me at this point. Everyone's answer is get over him, leave him alone, and move on with your life. I feel I have to set boundaries to know that I tried my best in the end. I just don't know which ones are reasonable. And at what stage do I know that it is ok to let him come home?

      Delete
    8. Oh and by the way...he currently is claiming that he will not touch a video game ever again, and that he has no desire to ever play again. This really concerns me because no one is addressing all of the drives that cause him to want to play for hours on end in the first place. Also, he is putting way too much emphasis on the games. I keep telling his mom that I had to call the police because of the abuse, not because of excessive gaming!

      Delete
    9. Hi Anon,

      The abuse was the problem yes - but I would not underestimate the problem with the gaming. It is the fantasy world that he hides in and it is very good that he is seeing that it needs to go. Whether that is true or not only time will tell - but he will certainly need a lot of help and time adjusting to the real world or life and responsibilities.

      As for the terms of your order that would be impossible for me to judge from here. I Back from the Looking Glass I outline what conditions I placed on Steve.

      The most important thing is that you work on your own ability to use emotional intelligence and also set solid boundaries. The exercises in The Love Safety Net Workbook will not only out line what is needed step by step but it will also help you chart your progress.

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  23. Not setting boundaries was my mistake. Not taking responsibility for my emotions was another. But, thank God I was able to "see" the signs of narcissism in my ex-boyfriend! He and I are no longer in a relationship, and I'm still brokenhearted after 2 years. Despite the fact that I now feel calm, I need closure and the education to become a more complete woman. It's strange but...I see narcissim and codependency EVERYWHERE now! Thank you for reaching out and providing these useful books!

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    1. With understanding comes healing - you hang in there and keep up the good work (-:

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  24. My husband and I are currently in marriage counseling. The issue I am struggling with is emotional infidelity on his part. He has very close emotional relationships with woman (primarily online) and wants to call them "friendships." He said in therapy yesterday that he would never be able to "go all in" with me and that he would always hold something back. He said these women friends are his "safety net" because he will never allow himself to be hurt emotionally AGAIN. He said he "went all in" three times in his life and was hurt every time. I'm to the point that I've told him friends are one thing, but what he is doing is emotional affairs and I will no longer turn a blind eye towards it. I'm going to stand my ground. He has also been verbally abusive and disrespectful towards me. I refuse to be co-dependent any longer! I love him...but respect myself more! Thank you for what you are doing. You have given me some insight into what he must be feeling and why he acts the way he does. He, too, grew up in a family with rampant infidelity and turmoil, and his first marriage was just the same...

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    1. I am glad we could help and definitely keep standing your ground!

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  25. I bought your books a few years ago and they are great. I wonder if you have had anyone in the position I am in now. I can say the kids and I are in a much healthier place. I exercise and eat right, volunteer at church, have some good Mom friends and keep on top of everything at home. My issue is that nothing for my husband has changed. Still haughty and demeaning, still drinks, still lies about women. The thing is it doesn't bother me, I am over it. I feel great, feel like I am living life and don't have it in me to nurture a porcupine, does that make sense? I don't fight or argue with him, I can easily move myself out of those situations and just let them go. I have been looking for a job and he made a nervous comment about it (he's been railing on me for years to work instead of tending to the kids) I really think he is worried I will leave if I have an independent job. The only reason I haven't left is because I worry about the kids having to deal with him without me around. I've seen what has happened to school friends kids who have to bounce back and forth between parents and their custody arrangement. However, the kids seem to be over his behavior too saying they like it better when he is at work. Surely others have been in this place too. Advice?

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    1. Hey - great work - lots of bitter sweet comments today! I think that you are exactly right that you getting stronger is going to make him very nervous. I would say that you keep at it and see how it goes. When he is nervous enough you might be in a very good position to make the personal bill of rights exercise in The Love Safety net Workbook bring down his "house of cards'!

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    2. Great advice. I will look for that window, thanks!

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    3. The Personal Bill of Rights Exercise is not on a webpage but in The Love Safety Net Workbook which you can purchase at our site www.narcissismcured.com

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  26. Hi, loved this video, thanks Steve for sharing what you were going through. But I was wondering if you (Steve) could talk about how you became aware and eventually accepted the diagnosis of narcissism, as narcissists believe there is nothing wrong with them and it's everyone else who has the problem. How do you get the narcissist to look and work on themselves? I've got all of your e-books and am busy working on myself, but my wife thinks there is nothing wrong with her behavior. I would love to hear about Steve's process of truly seeing himself and emerging from his narcissistic nightmare! Thanks.

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  27. Hey I will ask Steve if he will come and make a comment - but he is not as introspective about all of this as me (LOL) - the first step to me getting him to see it was leaving a page up online about narcissism and saying "Hey I was reading something here and I think it might be about you ... " That of course got him interested and all I had to do was leave it there and walk out of the room. He came out a half hour later white as a sheet and was very quiet that night with us. The next day of course he pretended to have forgotten all about it but that was the start of him knowing what the disorder was. I didn't have a guide to follow so the rest of the story took years!

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    1. It seems to me that having the NPD partner reach the point of awareness (of having NPD) is a huge turning point in treating it. However the nature of NPD makes it quite hard to attain that milestone. The NPD individual typically seems to be in denial about having issues that require treatment and I have read many horror stories about them becoming completely enraged when discovering their partner's research into NPD. I fear that approach might be dangerous, are there other strategies to consider?
      What an ugly complicated and frustrating illness, it seems it cannot be addressed head on but rather must be dealt with indirectly. Much of my effort goes into just staying on course and trying to avoid falling prey to feelings of frustration, anger and resentment. Before finding this site, the only advice I could find was "run away as fast as you can" It was hopeless and heartbreaking.
      Thanks for showing us that a positive alternative exists.

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    2. Our program focuses more on strengthening yourself and overcoming your codependence rather than trying to make your partner aware of anything. None of it could be classified as research on NPD and puts just as much emphasis (if not more) on codependence rather than NPD.

      Learning to effectively stand up for yourself without being emotionally manipulative WILL change the dynamic in your marriage. This means that you partner will not be able to comfortably continue in their old patterns. This may mean that they begin to follow your lead and change too or it may mean that the relationship ends. Either way will find you in a much better situation.

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  28. Kim's description above is how I initially became aware of my narcissism. It helped that my father quite obviously has NPD, and so it was in my face even more so because of him. Many other steps were helpful along the way, especially the way Kim built her support network to protect herself. I was also guilty of being repeatedly aggressive and deceptive- eventually it was made clear to me by Kim's support network that there was something wrong, and that I was not the victim.
    Kim allowed a few of the natural consequences of my actions to have their full effect on me. This was not because Kim was doing this out of revenge or trying to discipline me, she simply explained that she didn't know how to handle me, and therefore would need outside help. At first I tried to sweet-talk these people, or blame Kim, or blame someone else, but as Kim had formed a network, the true picture began to emerge to everyone, and really, I was cornered. I'm not perfect now but most of the old madness has gone, and my life is gentler and easier now. Steve.

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  29. Can you share a page that you left up for Steve to read? Also would it be better if I said read this as it may help you deal with your mom better?

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    1. I would never be able to find that now - but I will see if I can find / or make one for you today.

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  30. This was really great you two, thanks for sharing.

    The interesting thing about my boyfriend was that 6 months before I discovered your website, he showed up at my place in the middle of the night, drunk, and went on and on about how he had been on the internet researching narcissism coupled with sexual addiction for hours and hours and then realized that it was him!

    Unfortunately it didn't stop him from seducing a number of other women after that and dragging them and me through hell. We live in a very small town.

    I realized that in my situation as a girlfriend that did not live with him I really had to let him fail repeatedly. I would go along my merry way, date other men, hang out with my girlfriends and really live my life and stop trying to rescue him.

    I never totally gave up and many friends, and my adult son, have been angry with me. My one friend once told me that she didn't understand why I always needed to know "WHY?"

    Almost nine years in total and four years after discovering your website and purchasing your materials, we are seeing each other again and its going very well. He now has his teenage children with him because of his ex-wife's illness and he is bumping along learning how to really be a father.

    He still is in denial! Last year he became involved with a very young woman who adored him and of course like the narcissist he is it wasn't about how much he cared about her, it was the look of adoration in her eyes! He told me that he had such low self-esteem that he couldn't believe that she loved him so and therefore he couldn't be a narcissist.

    Ah well... The main thing that I have learned is that what matters is that I stand squarely and strongly in my power. You've helped me understand what the codependent behavior REALLY is. I don't argue, if necessary I walk away. He knows that I won't tolerate other women or lies. I greet him warmly and love on him. He has a long way to go to earn my trust completely, but its up to him to want my trust. I feel badly once in a while about his past treatment of me, but I don't dwell on it. Life is too short.

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    1. I am divorced of my 15 year marriage to my now exhusband. We have three children and we have all been victims of his narcissism. Because of your website it has allowed me to let go of the anger/hurt and help me understand his behavior. I know he loves us all the way he knows how. It is very frustrating still dealing with him and making him realize when he is hurting us. The difference now is I express my feelings and call him out on his behavior as it happens. But I do not get into arguments back and forth anymore. I state the fact and my/our hurt and let him sit on it so that he may have an opportunity to think about it rather than react when I would give him negative attitude. I am trying very hard to have patience with him and be the leader in this. It is hard to know I have to take charge because I too wanted to be rescued by him. I wanted the fairy tale story.

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  31. Five months after I married my husband (3yrs ago) I found he had been 'picking up' men on the internet. I was shocked, gobsmacked and hurt beyond belief. I couldn't understand, and he wouldn't discuss it or offer me any answers, except sorry. I had a nervous breakdown and spent 6 weeks in hospital. I decided not to leave, and with his promises that 'nothing actually happened' and it would never happen again, I tried really hard to leave it behind us, and I'm pretty sure I was 90% over it. Twice since then, I have found evidence of him cheating. Photo's on the camera card of him having sex with a man, photos of him in my underwear. He has so nearly broken me. The problem is, he can be so lovely and caring - that's the man I fell in love with, this other man is a stranger. We have been to counselling, he says this behaviour is self destructive, if things are going well for us, he goes into self destruct mode. If he stuffs things up, and I leave, well, that is what he feels he deserves, he doesn't deserve me.
    I have shown him on so many occasions that I'm not a quitter, that he can trust me and I can be understanding, but I really don't know what to do. We have been intimate once in the past 18months, and afterwards I worried whether I should have. Councelling has become 'too hard' for him to deal with now. We are cruising along day to day with little or no arguments (along with my co-dependance, which I have been seeing a psychologist for over a year to overcome, I have issues with confrontation, caused by some traumatic experiences of my own when I was young).
    I know the caring, loving person I fell in love with is in there, but I really don't know if I can ever trust this man, and I hate always having doubt in my mind when he isn't where he said he would be, or if he is late. This was never a behaviour I had before what happened with him, and I feel very uncomfortable with it. I have always been very trusting - it seems too trusting, always giving trust until it was broken, rather than waiting for others to earn my trust.
    Well, I'm still working on my issues, but he just keeps putting his head in the sand. I don't know how I can either help/make him open his eyes, and try again to make it work. I feel that I could trust again, and love completely again, if our foundation relationship, conversation and intimacy worked well, but the fact of the matter is, although he will do any physical work around the house and expect that to make me happy, he doesn't seem to see that me constantly telling him that means little to me, what is important is US - is what I really need.
    Maybe I have my head in the sand and it's time to throw in the towel.
    Oh well, not this week. I'm too tired. I've recently been diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis (interestingly, it can be brought on by stress) and until my medications kick in (about 4-6weeks more) I have little energy to deal with all this.
    K

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  32. Your husband being gay or bi-sexual is very different than him being narcissistic. Sexual orientation is something that is very difficult to change even if a person really wants to and who knows what is in your husbands heart? If he does want to change he might look for a NLP practitioner who is willing to help him with this - but I am telling you now many won't and instead will tell him it is something he needs to accept and come to terms with in himself.

    The question I think you need to put to him squarely is why he married you when he is gay? Rather than beat yourself up I think finding the answer to this might help you now. You obviously represent to him the outwardly more socially acceptable life he would prefer to project and so in this there is a certain amount of respect he must have for you. Where you two go from here is a tough one but I think that being able to face the truth and reality of his sexual orientation is going to be vital no matter how tough.

    As for your RA I would suggest that you check out Brown's protocol for an alternative view of your treatment options. RA is a very serious condition but one I believe can be reversed with the right program of treatment.

    You have a couple of big challenges in front of you with this - but if you can offer you husband some acceptance and understanding now, hopefully you both can come to trust and support each other in the decisions you each make now for your lives.

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  33. So I watched the video and I have several of the e books but my question remains: was Steve diagnosed with NPD or just exhibiting narcissistic traits? He appears to have understanding, empathy and the ability to offer emotional support. I shared this video with my spouse hoping he could relate to some part of Steve's story especially when he talked about being raised in a family where there was no trust and how that caused problems in his relationships. My spouse stated how does any of this relate to me? Actually his statement is reflective of a true NPD. Sure wish I knew how to break through but my spouse thinks and talks and focuses only on himself. I unfortunately am still grieving the loss of a compatible relationship. He made some changes before getting me back in 2010 but 3 months into the marriage each slowly slipped away. He says he wants to work things out and willing to make the physical changes but the sarcastic negative remarks are still there which he then denies or says I took it the wrong way and I really don't know what he is thinking. That is true because he doesn't say what he means.

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    1. Steve was assessed by a number of professional around us at that time as having NPD. The man you see now in this video is a totally different person than he was back then.

      The really important thing you need to understand (and you should see this in our ebooks?) is that the changes we recommend are things for YOU to do not him.

      For instance if he makes negative and sarcastic remarks you need to spend some time thinking of and rehearsing better come back lines that put him in his place (while ending the conversation) and then you need to get on with your own stuff.

      Putting pressure on him to change only puts power in his hands. Instead you need to rise above his negativity and take charge.

      This will take power away from his bad behavior.

      The chapter on Limiting abuse in the Love Safety net Workbook may help you see the shift I am talking about. So will reading more of the articles on this blog.

      You focusing on degrees of NPD and describing him as being a true NPD and saying you are grieving the loss of a compatible relationship gives me the impression that you are also giving too much energy to this disorder and in the process disempowering yourself.

      Your husband may change or he may not but the steps in Back from the Looking Glass and the exercises in The Love Safety Net Workbook will help you find the security and love you are craving with or without him.

      I had no guide to follow and only exerts saying I was stupid to believe I could help Steve and still I determined that our life together was going to change no matter what he had to say about it!

      I only mention this because this kind of determination is really important if you expect to change life long habits in yourself.

      Or you may be grieving because you are feeling it's too hard and you don't really care enough anymore to make the effort and you should know that it is okay for you to say that!

      Wanting a good relationship is not the same as wanting to have a good relationship with him.

      Again I think you would give yourself a lot more credit and it would be more empowering for you to admit that you are having your doubts and maybe it is time to call it quits - rather than needing to make him out to be a hopeless case and in this way putting all the responsibility for that decision on him.

      Your love is something special and also powerful and you have the right to decide who you wish to share it with.

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  34. After being in a really bad relationship for 7 years my partner left me for a woman 28 years younger than me (I am 56) He sent me disgusting text messages for the first 2 months (we have been split up for 4 months.) However he is still bad mouthing me to male mutual friends (He says he is happy he left as I had a disgusting body etc.) I haven't seen him since he left but would like you to help me to understand why he is still saying these bad words. ps you guys have helped me enormously x

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    1. That is simple - it is because he feels guilty and embarrassed about what he is doing and so he needs to puff himself (at your expense) to his friends.

      Carry yourself well and hold your head high and don't be frightened to show the people in your community that you are a beautiful women who respects herself.

      His behavior with this other women will shout a lot louder to the people around him than his words. Even the worst men know that men who behave like that are making asses of themselves.

      Even before Steve got better he used to say to me - "If I run off with a young bimbo when I go through mid life crises - please take me out and shoot me to put me out of my misery".

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    2. Thank you for replying to my cry for understanding. I have been holding my head up, which hasn't been easy. But it is alot easier than the torment he put me through for the 7 years. I am at peace but still suffer when I think of his behaviour and disrespect for me. You two are like angels helping distraught people like me. I bought your books along time ago and they gave me strength to be where I am today (single and recovering)as he didn't want to change his ways. xx

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    3. I am so glad for you guys as well, I am going through a similar situation,right now. I put up with so much abuse and after 5 years of hell, he ends up cheating on me. Told me he didn't care that he has lost me(I just lost 100lbs)that I am fat, ugly, I am turning 45 tomorrow and look 10 years younger. Said I am past my prime, I have lost my looks(never looked better since I met him)my self esteem is in the dumpster(but getting better all the time)I just feel so sad for the kids and it makes me sick what he did to me, not one but at least 4 woman. Good luck to you, you are not alone.


      Now he wont talk to the kids for almost 4 months, calls me a whore, lying cheating bitch and wont talk to me unless it is to insult me and all I have in me is why? Why? why? why does he do this, why does he do that and I am finaly coming to think, why do I give a sh..

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    4. Hey congratulations on losing all that weight and getting your self esteem back together! You have really upset his world because you used to be the person he scapegoated all of his problems on and now he can't do that anymore can he!

      You hold your ground and whichever way it goes you make sure that you don't let the worst in him bring out the worst in you. His "house of cards" may come down or not (that will only happen if you build a lot of trust) but really you are the one that is starting to take charge now and you need to decide where you want it to go.

      If you do decide to try and 'crack' his narcissistic shell you need to know that underneath he will be extremely weak and vulnerable. All those things he says about you are what he believes about himself. Back From the Looking Glass would really help you now which ever way you go ...

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  35. Steve - What courage you have to talk about what you have been through! I know you were nervous about it, but you have such a unique and valuable perspective to offer, I hope you will continue to share.

    I think the NPD male thinks that a real man puts a woman "in her place." A real man is a protector and knows his wife's place is on a pedastel.

    Kim - I also commend your courage and strength in helping Steve to become the man he is today.

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  37. Hi Kim,
    Firstly I would like to say thank you to yourself and Steve for setting up some useful and real resources that people can use to help them in crisis situations. I am needing your books by my side to flick to and use regularly and be implanted in my brain.
    I am on a very tricky path at the moment and have had too make another gut wrenching decison of applying for another vro against my former partner to stop his abuse against me. I thought he may have learnt my boundaries after nearly 2 years of one being on him however his old patterns of behaviour and mis treatment are returning and I think if he placed more energy into positive traits then negative dark ones we would both get along alot better. Many issues have sparked his abuse off again and I do end up worrying how far it will go and go into protection mode as I walked that path few years ago and wasn't a happy time. Do you think I am doing the right thing again as it is a tricky one when all the support services I have accessed in my W.A. town say this is all you can do and limit contact etc.... However then there is more abuse and power struggles that are emphasised throughout the family court and other systems which follow after separation. I wish there were better support services too help with this issue as domestic violence is in every town and needs too be spoken more about and the number of families which are destroyed is frightning. I believe their are court systems in W.A. which deal with assualts and domestic violence but this is not one I have accessed and had my hearings at. I believe that this court helps the perpetrator deal with anger, drug problems etc however they have to be honest with themselves and admit their crime and faults. My former partner is not at this stage so this is why is
    t's so hard for me he continually projects blame, lies and pays high powered lawyers too get off crimes. So the cycle is never broken and Narcissts keeps being that way and never has too change!! -

    I am finding there is no real support with lawyers in the family court they fogg you off when it comes to domestic violence and it gets minimised and they tell you just to be a separated, co-parent and the abuse continues for years!!

    Any ideas on what too do next too survive my path and 2012's challenges?

    Kindest Regards & Respect,
    (W.A. Lady)

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  38. Hi W.A. Lady,

    The problems you are outlining are exactly why the Love Safety net Workbook is laid out the way it is. The exercises included in the four pillars make sure you are taking a balanced approach to the changes you need to make and the last exercise tracks those changes so you can easily go back and see which areas need work (and haven't been given enough attention) if things start to slide backwards. The reason this is important is that people will usually tackle the areas that are easiest and the most comfortable to them first but it is the steps that are the hardest that will usually cause the biggest changes for the better.

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  39. Hi there, I will go over the workbook again and again to help myself and my ongoing issues regarding my former partners N.P.D & and at times my co-dependence lol!! I have had to make a decision to go to my local court and have finally gained respect of some people in the right fields to also help me tackle the issue of ongoing abuse and domestic violence. I am very greatful as it was really starting to destroy me & affect my health and work plans, ability to mother and I want a brighter life for my girl and myself & am determined to achieve this and get stronger. I am very greatful for your ongoing support which has helped me through my ordeal and at times I wish my former partner would simply stop and see what I have been truly wanted to achieve and aim for respectful relationships. Thank you both for your help & if you ever come to W.A. for seminars on Domestic Violence I would support you both 100 percent, as this is a massive issue in all areas which so many people are living with. I am very interested in supporting others walking this path and have supported my local womens refuge and white ribbon organisation. I have purchased a copy of your new book which I can't wait to have a look at with the snazy cover & will promote to others needing support and help. x0

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  40. Hi Kim,
    I do have a few challenging question which I hope you don't mind me asking you?
    1) Do you think the only answer for reoccuring abuse and disrespect after separation is too keep filling V.R.o's? - In W.A. the laws are place one on your partner or ex and leave and simply avoid contact and communication as much as possible even if family court orders exist.

    2) Lawyers also advise to not have contact to prevent the abuse & likelihood of more family domestic incidents. Are there any other suggestions or avenues to stop the abuse and have strong boundaries and penalties in place if it keeps occuring but still maintain communication?? - I canno't find the solution and right balance it seems and the W.A. laws regarding the magistrate and family law courts do not seem to encourage families staying in a home where domestic violence occurs they seem to think the only option is to separate.


    Any ideas I know it is very complex, and different to your personal situation and state laws allowed yourself to have orders in place and remain in the home, where as W.A. you are given a black and white approach to handle this situation.

    KIndest Regards

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  41. In NSW you can apply for an AVO that still allows the person to live with you. Personally I think that is usually the best solution - but it is obviously case by case. If you read through my story in Back From the Looking Glass you will read a lot of details on this very subject. I think you should read up on that and ask if this same type of arrangement is available in your area if that is what you choose to do.

    Kim Cooper
    www.NarcissismCured.com

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  42. Hi Kim, I have some big challenges ahead with my personal situation with my professional Narcissts. Are you able to give me any tips of advice as I have not been able to travel the same path as yourself and gain such a order and remain in the family home. So as of a result I have escaped the domestic violence and did put myself and my child in some harm and danger. I have discussed my situations of abuse experienced to local W.A. magistrates and lawyers. The advise you get which you were told which is to remove yourself and have no contact and place V.R.o's on if your feeling unsafe etc. I have been through that process and I found it was really a double edged sword as I got away from the physicall abuse and it was limited whilst the V.R.o was on however he utilises the family court orders and arrangements to continue the abuse or do it in other ways at handovers of our child or abuse me in communication books and on social media sites. This is very tiring and is ongoing and he has had numerous female partners or girlfriends who he is also dragging into his antics to hurt and abuse me.

    1) Are there any ways I have not thought of or figured out to stop this abuse as I am separated from him now the evidence I have recently given to a local magistrate wasn't sufficient in his eyes to be enough for a immediate order to protect me.

    2) Lawyers only advise is to change locations of drop off of our child so there is no face to face contact and therefore family abuse occuring... so the relationship once again is ceased totally.

    3) I am finding it almost impossible to have a balance of a mature respectful relationship with my former partner as he shows no respect for me what so ever and has taken no care or responsibility of past actions of abuse towards me as he was never charged for them but there was enough evidence for a final v.r.o but that was all that occured. I am afraid he is back to testing boundaries and hurting me solely as he must enjoy it and knows how to play and manipulate both the criminal and family court legal systems.

    Any ideas for women in my situation who didn't have the opportunity or the courts support to remain in the family home and be safe. I feel as though separated women who have left the N.P. partner are never free from the abuse and I am starting to think I will have this for a very long time unless I change something and my life turns around for the better.

    Kindest Regards & Respect,
    (W.A Lady)

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    1. It is very hard for me to give advice as this was not my situation. It IS however precisely why we give the advice that we do.

      I suggest that you look at the last chapter of Back From the Looking Glass and try and get some ideas from our advice about leaving. It is too late to try and get his respect - what you want now is for him to forget about the fight. Let him feel his ego has won and he will move on. Say you were wrong and you miss him while also saying that you have a bad case of the runs and need looking after. Say whatever you need to to make him lose interest in proving himself right and you wrong.

      In the meantime work through the advice I gave when you emailed me and get yourself in the strongest position you can.

      This is a dangerous game and scary I know but you cannot keep wringing your hands now saying to yourself "What can I do?" You need to make a strategy and you need to play to win. If that means letting him boast that he is the one that dropped you rather than you leaving him so be it. If it gets him to leave you alone in reality you have won!

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  43. Hi again - Thank you so very much for all your help. I do want to end the "fight" in all aspects as it's consumed enough of my self and my life.

    I suppose there is a bitter sweet outcome for myself as I have to close that chapter of "what could of been or what I would of liked to have been with my lil family" & what I honestly earned for!!!

    - I have accepted this is not my reality and things are far too gone now, so I now look forward to a brand new future and put all my energy into myself and my child. This is also scary as I am facing alot of truths of my former partner being a N.P as well as my role I played in the relationship as the Co-dependent.

    Thank you and Steve for your support & helping me through my maze!
    Kindest Regards,
    (W.A Lady)

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  44. Hi it is me again 303,
    I am having trouble dealing with V, I just had an operation last Thursday and he had a complete meltdown at me 1 hour after we got home. Next day he lost his bananas and it was the worse that I have seen him be it was that frightening. All over he dropped the butter and blame this on me and after ranting and raving for hour and kicked me out while i could not move and in pain. I am still shocked and traumatized about this still. I am going through the angry stage at the moment and I would love to hang his dirty laundry aired on Facebook about what happened. I am struggling with the concept of him acting all happy and gloating about himself on facebook. I think it hit me on Valentines day he went and helped a friend out and did all her dishes for her... whilist I am still at home recurperating and nursing my wound. It stung and hurt. But it wasn't until I discovered a real motive that he needed good karma back at him. You cannot create Karma like that it works in mysterious ways and it has a way of slapping you in the face. I contacted this women and said listen you need to realise that he is a Narc and there is always a motive etc. He admitted to her that he is Narcissistic. I have told her all about what has been going on in the last 2 years and she is shocked but has a better understanding of why and how. Funny thing is he went over there to grab xanax as he is having trouble sleeping.
    I have recruited her and a few friends and it is now time that I have told my family as the cracks are now showing. I have taken your advice in the Looking back from the glass and co dependency and now building a life of my own. I will be moving into a new place on Saturday and once I get settled and better I will be exercising my bill of rights in my home and boy the house of V will be coming down or otherwise he can high tail it to his place. There will be a new set of rules.
    He will fight me tooth and nail for the change not to come and I will be rising up squarely.
    I have not rang him since that day, however I am not ignoring him just regrouping my thoughts and arming myself with the Love safety net. Co dependent is just as bad as Narcissism. I should never had let him come to the hospital my friends were wary and like a wolf in sheep clothing he told them not to pick me up he had it under control. It was almost predatory and calculating.
    Was this like this in your relationship? How do you deal with Facebook? Its like a playground for Narcissistic..

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    1. You are doing great 303! So great to see you taking it all on! Yes social media can be tough but really you have better things to worry about and a life to live! No I didn't ahve that back when I had my problems with Steve but then he worked at a bar every night until after 12 and so I could not even see any of what went on there or after work. You hang in there - a new life awaits you after this battle!

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  45. I have faith and it is time the pity party for myself ended I am a strong women and can almost deal with anything. I should have listened to your instinct and mine regarding V taking me to the hospital and I didn't but that is a lesson to be learnt. At this stage you are right Facebook can go on the back burner for awhile as I do have lots of things to worry about and now that I have found out that my job has been readvertised while off was sick. There is no way that I am going to rely on anyone else and this is something that I am going to have to do on my own 2 feet. However I must point out, much as I would love a happy ending like you and Steve, but this is going to be a different ending. As all relationship are different and has different aspect and qualities that people bring in together.
    No 2 people are alike.
    V is scared and angry that I am in more control of my life and to be honest it didn't help the fact that I posted on Facebook " Now is the time for me to follow my dreams and do the things that I want to do" anyone would get scared but you are right Kim this is me time and now for the nurturing of soul... I hope to post you with good news in the coming months xx

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    1. Your story is certainly not over and the ending may surprise you! You are SO on the right track! You are doing great and the progress you start making now will make everyday a challenge to look forward to!

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  46. The problem I have is what to do after a verbal abuse episode. I am letting him know that I need some space after a tongue lashing so I wont be going any where with him and doing as if its business as usual. He purposely tries to get me into conversation so I have to balance being pleasant and not letting myself be drawn into no consequences for his actions. I am feeling out what he really needs (is dependent on me for) and like you say limiting what I give to him.

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  47. What I've found is after almost 37yrs of marriage and most of that living with daily abuse of one form or another, my husband isn't prepared to give up what I guess he sees as his right or control.
    Gradually it has become more difficult as I've brought the abuse out into the open and he doesn't want to be seen as the abuser. It has meant that he's resorted to more insidious forms of erbal abuse, being derogatory, then denying it, interrupting, talking over me, pre emoting what I'm about to say and jumping in with critisisms even before he has heard what I'm about to say. I don't like using ultimatums, but I eventually said if he didn't get this technique of his under control, I'd have to resort to keeping our exchanges civil but short.
    He didn't believe I would stick to my word, he has little respect or regard for me. Unfortunately, after giving him one last chance, he pushed his luck too far and I've met my word. True to form, he's acting like the injured party, but I have to say its a relief not to be having to deal with unpleasant comments or struggle to keep my temper by being provoked by his behaviour. It's sad it's come to this, but if I have to ensure my own emotional safety as he's not going to.
    He's already begun to target a young woman at work, not much older than our own daughter. This. began before I curtailed conversation, but he's likely to use my actions as his rreasins for pursuing her.

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    1. Learning to end unproductive conversations is a great skill and doesn't have to be sad! If you combined that great skill with a few of our other techniques you might find he has no choice but to let go of control as he watches that control slip between his fingers. This step you have taken has helped you grow stronger and I congratulate you!

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  48. I READ IN ONE OF YOUR ARTICLES THAT IF A NARCISSIT LAYS DOWN HIS ARMOUR YOU MIGHT FIND A WORSE CASE OF SCHIZOID DISORDERS HIDDEN BY NARCISSISM AND THAT ONE MIGHT NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH IT, AND HE WILL FEEL PROBABLY LOST AND VULNERABLE AND NEED TIME TO RECOVER.. YOU WERE RIGHT... HE DID ONCE LET DOWN HIS WALLS DOWN COMPLETELY AND I AFTERWARDS COMMITTED THE MISTAKE OF THRASHING OUT AT HIM FOR GOING INTO HIS SILENT AUTO EXILED MODES...SO I BROKE OFF WITH HIM TELLING HIM I LOVED HIM BUT THAT I INTERPRETED HIS SILENT TREATMENTS AS A BREAKUP AND A SIGN TO MOVE ON...THE TRUTH IS I MISS HIM TOO MUCH ... HOW CAN I GET HIM TO COME BACK? WE DON'T LIVE TOGETHER ..RIGHT NOW THERE IS NO CONTACT .THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP.

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    1. That is a tough one to answer. Building trust takes a long time and can easily be broken. You could write him a short poem or something saying you are sorry and that there is no pressure but that you are there for him anytime if he decides he wants to see you. Then you really need to get on with you own life and goals and prove that you are stable! If he is as vulnerable as you say he is not going to be able to be any kind of crutch for emotional neediness in you. If you truly want a relationship with him you will need to be emotionally very strong and not weak!

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    2. THANK YOU KIM, I INTEND TO WAIT A BIT MORE TO CONTACT HIM IN ORDER TO GIVE HIM TIME AND SPACE AND TO SHOW HIM THAT I AM STABLE. AS YOU SUGGEST, I HAVE WRITTEN A POEM ABOUT MY LOVE FOR HIM ,BUT I AM CONCERNED THAT NARCISSISTS/SCHIZOIDS DO NO LIKE TO TALK ABOUT LOVE AND SEE IT AS A WEAKNESS OR A FLAW OF CHARACTER...IS THIS TRUE? IF WE DO HAVE A CHANCE AND COME BACK TOGETHER , DO YOU THINK I WILL BE FOREVER DESTINED TO SUFFER HIS HOT AND COLD BEHAVIOR, OR IS THERE SOMETHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT? THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT KEEPS OUR RELATIONSHIP FROM WORKING! MANY THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!! YOU ARE AN ANGEL!

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    3. Everyone wants to be loved for who they are but love can be scary and put people in defense - especially if there are unrealistic expectations involved.

      I really highly suggest that you work through the exercises in our workbook and also 10 Steps to Overcome Codependence. I think you will find what you are looking for answers for there.

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    4. IS THE BOOK YOU SUGGEST "BEHIND THE LOOKING GLASS" ? I HAVE IT... BUT IF ITS ANOTHER ONE ...CAN I DOWNLOAD IT ON THE INTERNET? THANK YOU AGAIN!!!

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    5. No What I recommend is The Love Safety net Workbook and 10 Steps to Overcome Codependence both of which you can download on the internet. Check out the sidebar to the right of this post.

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  49. Looking for advice.

    Over the past few nights I have watched many of your videos and purchased the looking glass and the workbood. I have recently become aware of Narcissism and it has been a huge eye opener. My wife came from a seemingly successful family, but was sexually abused as an early teenager twice and had a somewhat crazy narcissistic abusive mother with a nice and supportive father, but who was unfaithful to her mother. I came from a strict Catholic father in charge and sweet homemaker mother. MY wife espoused that she longed for that to be our relationship as it was her grandmother's she adored and who gave her unconditional love. My wife was always insecure and hypersensitive to any criticism or suggestions, but was a mostly loving wife and doting mother of our soon 4 boys. Tragically, her grandparents were murdered several years into our marriage and the trauma from losing her idol and the ensuing trials helped her become an alcoholic as others in her family did. When her father died 6 years ago, she said the rest of her soul died with him. She went from bad to worse by losing weight to look sexy, and became mostly completely self absorbed. She had online affairs, freguented bars for men's attention, began staying overnight for business and almost had no regard anymore for me or our children. with no remorse for her behavior. After many fights and a bad night of behavior I asked her leave and get help. She joined AA and has been sober for a year now, which is great. However, she no longer has any feelings she says for me and is working on becoming a good mother again. Although, she only wants the kids part time to not have to much stress and lose her sobriety. She says she cannot be a wife for the stress of being the old christian family we used to be. She is content more alone. Although, she is on a dating website as a happy, cup always half full person. She comes across still to those that only somewhat know her as charming, beautiful(which she is), fun, but she would come home and say how empty she is inside. We have been separated for months and I had given up and was ready to start divorce proceedings, so I could start to find someone to care for me again. I loved my wife dearly and it hurt me to no end when her behavior started. I realize I did all the wrong things. I condemned, I tried to explain how she was hurting us with no remorse, I tried to please her with gifts and vacations. My last hope is your material. I don't hold to high of expectations, but I want to know what materials to give her and to start with myself. Which videos to watch in any order. I feel I have one chance left and want to proceed right if we have any chance at all. Thanks

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    1. 10 Steps to Overcome codependence would be a great place for you to start.

      It sounds like your relationship cannot go back to where it was but needs to move forwards now. Having some goals for yourself and patience and kindness for your wife may help. I also think it is very important that you do not argue with what she wants but agree with her while letting her know that you will stand by whatever decisions she makes. This will get a lot less resistance and will help rebuild trust.

      I know that may seem to put you in a place of no love but this is why it is vital you really work now to learn to love and care for yourself. You wife has been through some terrible trauma (and violence) and if you are able to feel for her and help decrease the expectations on her trust may grow in time. The role of a good Christian wife and mother is a tough gig and takes a lot of strength, positivity and confidence and if she feels she cannot go back to that I think it is important you try and understand that. Thinking of some no pressure fun things to do together with her and the kids where you show her you all love her but are not expecting too much in return may be the best you can offer right now.

      Hang in there - life can be really tough sometimes but it also helps us grow strong.

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    2. Thanks so much for your time and for you advice.

      Do you think I should give here any of your material? Videos? Workbook? You may be a narcissist? Or just try and keep things fun only when around her as you suggest.

      Also, we are both on a dating website. I was on mostly to pass time when lonely to start to think about possibly someone else. She has already been on a couple dates, although she says it is just for someone to do something with. Most of her friends are gone through her cutting them off because of her bad behavior towards me or she has judged them in her mind as judging her. It is easier it seems lately to find/ start with someone new that wants the same things I do, but I am trying to resist the finalization of what was a lot of time a great family unit.

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    3. I guess it depends on if you still love her or not and if you want to work on building trust with her and building some kind of new family unit (with perhaps less expectations than you had before) or not. If you start dating again I doubt you will have any chance of building trust again.

      The books I suggested are for you and not her! Giving someone a book that they need to read will not build trust. Our help is primarily for partners.

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    4. Anonymous, I am not sure where you are located but I am in a similar situation and am in a support group that has helped. Is there a way to contact you or can I leave contact info here? If so, try me at username LoveTruth at christiandatingforfree.com. I don't date there - I only have a couple of Christian penpals who are supportive of my situation. Let me know if I can help! I care. :)

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  50. Hi, Kim. Your materials have helped me enormously. I'm in a difficult situation-my NPD husband is working overseas. Saw him for 2 weeks at Christmas-went better than expected - he admitted he felt a lot of love - but he says he has doubts. I've been positive, sent short, loving messages, but I get very little in return - only when he needs something. And a young woman where he's working has popped up on his Facebook page as a new 'friend'. As a codependent, I know I contributed to the problems early in our marriage (last year), and I've apologized. I've undergone a lot of change, thanks to your workbooks and materials. I want to be positive, but what kind of marriage/relationship is this? No connection-I'm ready to accept that it's most likely over for us. He's let me know he's coming back in May . . . what will that look like?

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    1. Is he coming back in May for good or will he be going back to the job overseas? The progress you are making is good but you need to be patient and let this play out. If he decides home is where he would rather be that would be a great start.

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    2. He'll be going back - intense times away for a project that will last about 2 years, then hopefully home more than he'll be away. I want to make this a safe place for him to come home to - for both of us. Thanks for the encouragement - I'll be more patient.

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  51. HI KIMCO,
    I WROTE TO YOU ON MARCH 21ST AND 24TH . AND YOU WROTE TO ME THAT TRUST WAS SLOW IN BUILDING UP AGAIN AND SUGGESTED I READ ABOUT THE 10 WAYS TO OVERCOME CODEPENDENCE. I HAVE BEEN READING THEM AND FIND MYSELF STRONGER AND DETERMINED TO UNDERSTAND HIS VULNERABILITIES AND MINE, SINCE THEN HE HAS CONTACTED ME ONCE A WEEK (BEFORE HIS AUTO-EXILE LASTED MUCH, MUCH MORE) AND ALTHOUGH WE EXCHNGED MESSAGES ALMOST AS FRIENDS ,I FEEL HE HAS MADE AN ENORMOUS EFFORT AND THAT I AM ALSO SHOWING HIM I AM THERE WHEN HE NEEDS ME AND EMOTIONALLY STRONG. I FEEL IT'S MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION! WHAT DO YOU THINK? AM I DELUDING MYSELF? THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP.

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    1. It sounds like you are doing great - good work - hang in there and keep working on it!

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  52. Hi, Kim.
    I'm the woman with the husband who works overseas - and my worst fears have been confirmed. He put on his facebook page that he had a partner - the other woman. I shot an e-mail to his boss, stating my concerns for him. We talked on Skype tonight - he won't admit the affair, and got angry at me, said he would never be emotionally available to me. He was angry that I had sent a message to his boss.
    I do feel stronger, but so very sad.

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    1. Hey that is very sad - but it is much better that you are out of the dark. Let him try and paint himself as the victim if he likes - but don't get involved in those conversations and have something better to do. I doubt anyone else will believe him if you refuse to argue about it. You know the truth and so why waste your time listening to his lies. If he can't get you involved in arguing he is going to really start getting nervous and feeling the heat.

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  53. Thanks for the encouragement, Kim. I do love him so much - but can't be the only one nurturing the relationship, and at such a distance. But I will be patient and keep the positive messages coming from this end. You are the best.

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    1. Kim, would you welcome him home? Move him out? He hasn't owned up to the affair, and is acting as though he can come back as though all were normal. No communication, no information

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    2. Hi Kim,
      I am touching base with you again to let you be updated on my situation & see if there is any advice that you may be able to offer. I have been proactive in going back to the local court and been strong in telling the judge my ongoing abuse & behaviour patterns existing with dealings with my former partner especially in regards to child acess. ( Family court orders contradict V.R.0's & it is causing great stress for myself & police even seem powerless)... So the opportunities for intimadation and abuse & mind games as well as dragging other people into child handovers continues. I have not dropt my vro hearing even though my ex is trying too manipulate me to do so & I hope to have a legal family conference to help make my situation better.

      I believe my ex's behaviour just goes in cycles and it is all narcisstic & is being fulled by all the negative support to be this way which surrounds him & he doesn't see he has a problem or needs to change when everyone supports his ways & he gets away with criminal activities. I am over feeling like a joke after breeches of vros in the past & getting off assualt charges. He is also trying to controll my life still after years of separation. I also tried to do what you adviced me to do in the email in regards to playing smart & I saw 2 different lawyers and both advised me that I couldn't do that option so I was left frustrated as I need to play smart & gain power back & show him I will expose him if he continues this way to me & my child. Hope you know what I am referring to here... So I am left with going through with a vro trial next mnth & or a family conference & I am still feeling the same way in my own small town. ANy ideas to get through this ordeal? - I personally think what you suggested before was great & smart & needed but no legal person will back me & I have spent so much money to get this to happen & spending more if go to family court and vro hearing & I am not working full time yet. I am a big believer the laws need to be reviewed in W.A. to help with this complex issue & the advice you get is mostly text book & processed driven not intelligent enough for the outcomes needed with these N.P's.

      I have recently read there have been more murders implemented in Australia with former partners relating to domestic violence & family court orders & this is so sad & a reality check on how real this complex problem is & how police & lawyers should not be so complasiant and refer too complaints or people asking for support as being over sensitive as your certaintly not when your injured again or even worse found dead.

      Kindest Regards. (W.A. Lady)

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    3. The system is very hard to get onside once it comes down to custody of kids. For now the best you can probably do is keep on trying but also do all that you can to de-escalate the conflict. The best way to do this might be to let him feel he has won. Tell him you were wrong and that you miss him - but if you don't want him back also tell him you are sick and have debt collectors after you! Do what you have to - it is better you and your child are safe. Once he feels he has won he will probably lose interest and you will be looking after her most of the time anyway. Hang in there and good luck!

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    4. Hi there, I do believe this is the case once custody & family court comes into play as it is a higher court then the criminal court. (The N.P's learn to manipulate this system to a t & go for all their rights even when they trully don't want acess of their child.

      I am seeing this occur to many women in my local community & they are left feeling powerless in many ways. (Ongoing abuse at handovers of child, no payments for csa, don't feel child is safe in their care, degenerating & lies to local community & social networks etc..) -

      "What doesn't kill you makes you Stronger"!!!

      Thank you for your feedback & support & I am almost the full time parent of my child & I knew this would occur,even after him wanting to start a family more so then myself & promising me the world.

      This has all been a massive learning curve for myself in many domains & the legal ordeals are making me stronger to improve my own strength as a mother & with my career & I am working on building a happier life.

      Kind Regards (W.A. Lady)

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  54. Hello, Kim.
    I'm the woman with the husband who works overseas. When I confronted him about his affair, he cut off communication with me and went underground. Surfaced a couple of weeks later when he was planning a brief return trip to the States - he thought he could come home and host his sons (my stepsons) in my home. In the meantime, I consulted with an attorney, got 6 friends, and put his things in a storage unit. That shocked him, and now I am getting about the business of rebuilding my life. I am terribly sad, but thankful I found Kim and Steve's materials, as they have helped me defeat my codependence, and I am working hard to let go and let the silver lining come out for me. Hardest thing I've ever done. Thanks, Kim and Steve.

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  55. Hi Kim, I found out 6 weeks ago that my husband of 20yrs has been seeing prostitutes for the last 15yrs of our marriage while on business trips, and 2 yrs ago when I went out of town with the kids, he had a prostitute from Craigs list in our house. I left him and have filed for divorce, he only told me because he thought he had HIV, he does not have it. I am in total shock and very numb, he has been told that he is a narcissist by his couseler I have not had a great marriage and he has all the traits of NPD. I wish I had known years ago what he was, I became very co dependant with not knowing what I was dealing with. We have 3 children and it has been devastating he hid it so well to the public. I knew something was wrong. I think it is too late for me too try to make it work I am in counselling too. What do you think.

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    1. Hey I am so sorry to hear that and know that you must be in shock. Whether you save your marriage or not I do believe that working through our program would help you find closure and also help make sure you never end up in this kind of relationship again. Whether you divorce or not - for your kids sake it is very important that you end the conflict.

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    2. I did not want to file, but I saw no other options, he said he did not want a divorce but so far has done very little to show otherwise. He is in therapy, and see's the kids but has not made an effort to contact me unless it's for the kids. He went out of town today on another business trip and did not tell myself or the kids where he is staying. The coldness hurts me to the core, it's like he is mad at me for leaving, when he knew I would leave if I found out what he did all these years. I cannot do joint counseling with someone who is I am sure, as we speak with a prostitute right now.

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    3. Back from The Looking Glass (the steps) and The Love Safety Net Workbook (the exercises) will give you the other options you are looking for!

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  56. In the past 24 hours i have had a major revelation! After six years of on and off again, he loves me ...he loves me not? confusion, etc.. I blamed it on his drug addiction, pornography< his ex-wife claiming he was once diagnosed as bipolar....I moved away...came back..again and again etc... friends and family vowing to never speak to me again if i went back to him...together in secrecy at times..trouble with the law ...it goes on...but there it was..narcissism!! wow!! there is my life..6 years of my life right there in bold print! I was elated to have finally discovered the "problem" the reason, the TRUTH..for about 5 minutes. Then sick to my stomach that all of my doubts were warranted everything is now verified! He didnt love me, he doesnt care, he did discard me, he has no guilt or shame! He is with other women. he has not spent 1 second thinking of me..I acted exactly as he had hoped...embarassing myself screaming how could he treat me like this? this isnt normal? While he pointed his finger in my face calling me psycho and to remove myself from "his" property. But what did I do? Because I said something he didnt like? So now i"m a real mess! face the truth, accept the truth, get over it, move on , forgive him forgive myself? am i mentally ill? am i codependent? did i like it somehow? am i just fooling myself? can i trust myself? im completely consumed now and it doesnt seem healthy? this whole thing im writing is all about me isnt it? who am i? who was i? who am i trying to be? am i crazy? do i need help? i wonder who he found to replace me with? how many others were there?Am i actually an "insanely jealous" woman as he said? why do i want to get even? why do i care? why did it take six years to figure out? haha these are just a few of the questions swirling around in my brain every waking moment!

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  57. OMG...I have been dealing with this for a little over a year. I have known almost immediately that his behavior was not normal, but that wasn't just a jerk. He lies about everything, even things he doesn't need to lie about, and even swears on his niece and nephews life that he is telling the truth, but isn't. He is so verbally abusive, however he doesn't like to actually speak his words, rather text them, even from the next room. He always tells me how horrible I am, how crazy I am and how rotten my children are. He throws temper tantrums when he doesn't get his own way, he has walked out of my place of business (his job), leaving me high and dry many times. He is constantly making promises and saying he will do and he never does. He is extremely lazy, has bills coming out the wazoo and won't work unless he feels like it. He has his moments of clarity and of course, I'm sorry's, however, the next day everything goes back the same. He's addicted to sex (with me fortunately), he's addicted to cigarettes, he's addicted to video games. If he's not doing any of those things, he's sleeping. He's so disconnect with reality...he can say something horrible and then take a nap and wake up thinking everything should be ok. He doesn't understand why I am hurt or upset if he said (or texted) I'm sorry. He thinks those words make the world go round. He is just not a good person to have around my children yet I keep thinking there is hope out there somewhere for him. He has seen a few psychologist that mainly concentrate on his anger issues and nothing else...he has been put on medication for his anger, however, he stops taking it after a day or so. He goes from one day saying "there is nothing wrong with me", to "it's my condition that makes me this way," to "it's all you (or everyone else), not me." It's driving me insane. He's had trouble with the law and will probably end up back there even though it's not going to help him. He does listen to me (as I am his sole provider - everyone has written him off) when I ask him to...I have read him some things and he agrees at that moment, there is something wrong and he needs help (and he says he needs help when we hit a low point), but in the very next breath he's telling me to get out because I did something he didn't want/like/aprove or allow. It's just crazy and I'm about to commit myself for being insane. What is the very first step? I have told him I loved him when he told me to die, I have stayed calm and even done things for him when he threatens to ruin my life...he takes full advantage of my generosity and my good heart. He also takes advantage of my love for God and thinks I should forgive him no matter what he does/says because I'm a Christian. Please...give me something to start from, give me some hope...

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  58. I just love you both for what you are doing! The e-books are amazing and I am starting to put them into practice. I am greatful that they are also reasonable priced, because yes...they are great tools and I desperately needed the information, but like everyone else, the economy is rough these days, and everyone is on a budget. I urge everyone who is dealing with someone who has narcistic tendancies, or is a co-dependent to buy Kim and Steve's books. It truly is a ray of hope, and so much better information than the doom and gloom others have out there on narcissism, painting only a picture of inevitable failure of the relationship with the person they love. Thank you both for showing us all that it is possible for a narcissist and co-dependent to have a loving relationship.

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  59. My husband and I have been together for 6 yrs married for 3.5 yrs, and things just keep getting worse. He does and says things, then later says he didn't do it or say it. He is always encouraging me to seek mental help. He has told me I was bipolar, manic depressant, had PTSD, a borderline personality, and always nags that I need anger management. Yes, he does drive me to the point where I am in rage!!! He has spent nights out the home, which he justifies, asks me to have threesomes, which he justifies, tells my kids I'm a bad mother, which he justifies, and/or retracts his words, then gets upset that I haven't forgiven him. He lies in front of the children, yells, then turns it all around on me. I've pointed this all out to him and suggested he may have a problem not me, which he completely denies and tell me not to turn it around on him. I've found recorded files that he has secretly kept taping me when I'm outraged at him, usual yelling because I found out about another woman. Pictures of me tossing his clothes out in attempt to kick him out. This is only the surface of it all. I still find random women but he deny s it later. When I try to discuss issues he uses four go to responses. They are "that's in the past, you need to learn how to forgive", or "I feel the same way about you", or "I'm not trying to talk about any problem today, I'm trying to have a good day, and so should you", or he'll just say "that's a lie". I always threaten to leave, but somehow cant. He uses this as an excuse as to why he behaves this way. He'll say, I don't care about him or don't love him cause I said I was leaving him. We've been to counselors but he refuses to admit to anything so we get no where. On the flip side. He is a community man, and everyone loves him. They believe his lies, and they believe he is someone he is not. He takes the kids and I to elaborate events, and we travel a great deal, and when he wants to be nice, he is the sweetest person around, but just like that he will flip into the nasty mean Jekyll and Hyde character. Our finances are such that I cannot afford to take care of the children and myself without him. And he has let me know that if I file for divorce, I am not getting alimony, and also that he wants shared custody us our daughter which means he has no intentions on paying child support either. I don't know what to do I Pray and Pray and nothing seems to be working. I love him so much and want this marriage to work, but he refuses to be real with me, its like he addicted to playing with my mind like I'm a game of chess. Help!!!!

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    1. Hi
      I dont know if you've had a reply, but the number 1 rule is not to confront a N that they have a problem. Kim and Steves material, the ebooks are fantastic, please purchase them. They give all the advice you need to get going in 13 steps to a peaceful home and overcoming codependence. It will be tough but worth it. N's are frightened children inside, and need love that they can trust. Good Luck

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  60. I hope to dear God you recieve this..I almost gave up on my narcissist boyfriend of 6 years.. I just couldn't.. I guess a reality check for me is that I have issues myself that brought me into this situation. Knowing this the past 3 years has helped keep me above the flood, however, i felt guilt and shame for remaining in the relationship. Of corse this was througbhthe help of how the media and society in general will rather walk away from a problem, send it away, lock it up but never truly work on breaking the chains. By this i mean becoming aware of the problem by delving deeper and educating ourselves. My boyfriend has changed remarkably because i have learned to not lose myself and my esterm. I find that there is still so much more i want to learn and need to learn. I absolutely looooove your information and admire your compassion. I esoecially admire that your partner Steve had the courage to come foward about this condition that clearly can be corrected through awareness and healing. I look foward to purchasing your books a bit at a time of course. The one question I have is.. How to tell if my boyfriend would be a good candidate or how to get it started asap!! :)

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