Kyron Horman -- Better Off Not Found?

Kyron Horman -- Not One Scrap of Evidence that Kyron was Harmed when he Disappeared ...

I have a strong suspicion that -- for now -- this cute little guy is probably better off left where he is.

It's also my opinion that Kyron Hormon's step mother -- Terri Moulton Horman -- probably had her own very real (and understandable) reasons when she tried to hire someone to kill Kyron's father (her then husband) before Kyron's disappeared. I also believe that she is the furthest thing in the world from a psychopath. I believe people should leave her in peace and consider that she may have also had a very good reason to arrange for Kyron to go into hiding.

Of more concern to me is the couple's baby girl and I believe that stringent investigations should be made into her fathers fitness for any form of custody.

Please understand me saying “She probably had her own very good reasons when she tried to hire someone to kill her husband,"  does not mean I condone murder. I am only suggesting that it appears likely to me that she was in a situation with very few options and this can sometimes lead otherwise gentle and sane people into making bad choices.  

If Terri’s eldest boy was offered a chance to prosecute his step father under a media black out and with strict protection placed on his privacy - the other members of this family might be reunited once more and Kyron allowed to re assume his real identity.   

This might also save Kyron's dad any further possible attempts on his life ...  but there are no guarantees in jail.  


Just my opinion and a few hints as to what I believe may be the real story behind this case. 


Kim Cooper
http://www.NarcissismCured.com

41 comments:

  1. Hi, Kim. I very much recognise the attitudes you display in this blog post, because I am probably more prone to having them myself. I'm a narcissist and somewhat schizoid, and I used to have the personality disorders (NPD and SPD). Recently, I recognised that I also have extensive traits of codependence (CD). One of the things that struck me upon first learning about CD is that some of the features of it are the very same as those found in narcissism.

    While the CD is generally indecisive and seeking of approval from others, sometimes... when we *do* have a definite opinion of our own, it can be strong, and we can be spectacularly confident and even arrogant, uncompromising, and aggressive in our defence of it, and most disdainful of those who won't listen to our reason and see the light. Well... if I may be so bold as to say so, this is because we know when we may be wrong, and we are pathologically ambivalent and unsure of most things, so in those rare cases when we recognise something as crystal-clear and indisputable, given what we know, we have excellent reasons, in contrast to most cases where other people are similarly sure of themselves, where it is most likely a case of over-confidence and groundless cockiness. Furthermore, considering the great extent to which most people fail to provide valid arguments (such as additional facts) to support their position conflicting with ours, we have absolutely no reason to compromise. Now, I'm undoubtedly more narcissistic than you are (as I said, I was NPD), and *especially* after my narcissism became non-pathological (reflecting true self-esteem rather than delusions of grandeur), this gives me the ability to say self-glorifying things like this without shame or fear of criticism.

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  2. I'm not at all familiar with the story (about the Hormon family) you are commenting on, but I can comment on some things from a general point of view.

    You suggest that one of the characters had her reasons for attempting to take out a contract on one of the other players, and you suggest that these reasons may be real and understandable. I very much agree. When one takes active steps towards the end of ending someone's existence, or even just plans or wishes to do so and/or fantasises about it, one would typically have real and easily understandable reasons for it, regardless of whether they are compliant with rules and regulations. For example, from a narcissist's point of view, it is perfectly understandable to strongly desire to kill someone for an insult one regards as particularly serious. There is nothing mysterious about a lust for revenge, although in a narcissist's case, it may be special in that it tends to be spectacular and characterised by extreme overkill (ie. the insult avenged pales in comparison). Some other reasons that are also readily and intuitively understandable are a) to eliminate a threat (imminent or otherwise, e.g. self-defence), b) profit (financial, or some other direct selfish gain; eg. eliminate competition), c) altruism or sympathy (e.g. eliminating a nuisance to society or loved ones, helping someone with euthanasia), d) idealistic (e.g. justice, defence of morals, ideals, principles, good taste, etc.). I can understand additional reasons, but I shan't flaunt them here and now.

    Also, you suggest that it may be best if one of the characters were not to be found. I can't comment on it, knowing nothing of the story, but I will say, that to leave things as they are, without further intervention, is *VERY* often the best thing to do (and *ALWAYS* the easiest and cheapest). The reason that it is so often not the path taken by people or society is that feelings or idealism gets in the way of reality. The lust for revenge is one such reason - often, this is euphemistically re-labelled as "justice" in the minds of the majority, because it sounds better, and perhaps because Christianity recognises vengeance as one of the deadly sins. I have no need for such euphemisms; I love to be brazen and shameless about telling the truth in plain text, even though it is not infrequently against my best interests (ie. it's a case of saying what I feel like, rather than doing what is best for me); maybe this is an anti-social trait. Another common motivation for interventions that are not constructive or reasonable is rigid idealism (generally absolutistic and wishful thinking about the world in blatant contrast to reality) and inflexible worshipping of convention (ie. "this is the way we always did it / do it", or "this is what the law specifies"). The best decision is always the one made on a case-to-case basis, taking into account all the factors. Furthermore, the best decision is always one made from a single coherent perspective; with many conflicting perspectives and priorities, there can only ever be compromises. In general, society cares more about arbitrary specifications reflecting the consensus of the set of lying scumbags that are elected politicians, than it cares about either the victim, the perpetrator, or good sense (efficiency, constructiveness, etc.). It's sad, really. It's one of the many reasons for my sense of superiority and disdain for humanity at large.

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  3. It may be interesting to ask why you felt the need to point out that you don't condone murder, and that it's just your opinion. If anyone were to think differently in the absence of such clarification, is that likely to be a person deserving of any special treatment on your part (your reassurance and clarification)? If it were me, I wouldn't condescend to that level, and if anyone were to complain, I might ignore them or verbally abuse them ("get lost, idiot" or the like, but taking into account the details of the complaint). It's healthy and realistic not to keep up the pretence that humanity consists of members that are created equal or equally deserving of respect or sympathy; no-one lives up to that in practice, anyway. I'm guilty of that myself at times, but I'm getting increasingly better at stopping it. It is funny, that I act more overtly narcissistically and less falsely modest and diplomatic after recovering from NPD and SPD, than before.

    I'm very impressed by some of your work, and I would like to comment on that in private. So, I wonder if you have a more private e-mail address than the one associated with your business?

    Cheers,
    A. Wik (M.I. is the name of my blog)

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  4. A. Wik - it is interesting that you mention SPD as I have just been writing about how that can be confused with NPD on the page here; http://www.narcissismcured.com/narcissism-test.html
    I have a question for you to ponder ...

    Are you actually smarter than other people by not caring what people think of your words and judgements? Having no regard for other people will mean that you have very little influence in your life and in my thinking that isn't really very smart at all.

    Just my ruminations.

    I am glad that you found us here and please take care.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com
    PS. in my experience body work (such as deep tissue massage)
    and anything to do with touch is very good for SPD as it helps
    bring a person out of their head and back into their body
    which is really a much safer place to be (-:

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  5. Hi Kim.

    Regarding SPD being confused with NPD, I think it's improbable. Yes, there are similarities, but they are more in terms of psychodynamics and internal psychological matters such as attitudes, thinking and emotion (or the lack thereof), than a matter of behaviour and other overt characteristics. For example, the SPD diagnostic criteria mention "indifference to praise or criticism" (this may be feigned), which is quite a contrast to the NPD criteria, which mention "requires excessive admiration". One possible implication of the "feigned" suggestion above, is that SPDs may secretly - or even unconsciously - crave admiration, or alternatively, notoriety - that is, N.S. Of course, this may be largely attributed to the presence of NPD features in the SPD, or just the fact that almost all people want attention - while normals almost certainly abhor negative attention, personality disordered people (PDPs) may readily differ, and I think schizoids and anti-socials are more likely to opt for notoriety than narcissists or histrionics, but certainly the latter two also consider negative attention more palatable than normals do. Another difference is the amount of attention desired: schizoids certainly have attentional needs that are exceedingly modest, even in comparison with normals, and it can easily get too much for them if it's too intense and they can't withdraw from it. No, amount of attention is too much for a histrionic, but it can certainly get too much for a narcissist, especially if the N.S. is not of particularly high quality (e.g. coming from admired individuals recognised by the N as similarly elite, special or unique) or if the N's disposition is leaning more to the introverted.

    One issue that I would like to emphasise, because it is typically neglected, for no good reason whatsoever, is that a single person can - and often *do* - have features of multiple personality disorders, even if qualifying for a diagnosis of none of them. Different features affect each other, modifying their manifestation, both overt and covert, depending on the relative strength of the traits. For example, SPD may hide borderline PD with extreme perfection; when I lost NPD and SPD, notable BPD features that I had been unaware of came to surface; this is unsurprising, as I had BPD and NPD in early childhood, years before I developed SPD in response to repeated psychological trauma in childhood. One such BPD trait was abandonment insecurity or anxiety, and related hypersensitivity or even hyperacuity with regard to potential signs of approaching abandonment by some valued (such as a lover), the detection of which would trigger excessive efforts to moderate, minimise, or make amends for acts, opinions, or features of mine that I perceived as likely causes of the perceived signs of potential abandonment - this may be seen as a mild case of "frantic efforts to avoid abandonment"; in childhood, such efforts were most frantic indeed! Meanwhile, while SPD, I would not be prone to such behaviours at all (well, maybe a little!). Now, I'm most rid of the BPD traits, but occasionally, there can be a hint of it. Then again, mild to moderate traits of BPD or other PDs are not at all uncommon in normals either. Merely *knowing* a lot of psychopathology makes you a lot more likely to see it, or mere hints of it, in yourself and in others. In other words, I'm probably not more BPD than most people, and may even be less so, but I know I'm more narcissistic, schizoid, and anti-social. I tend to be somewhat loquacious, intricate, and elaborate on these topics, because they are great interests to me, and because I strive for accuracy, precision, and some measure of completeness (essentially, truthfulness).

    [ TO BE CONTINUED... ]

    Cheers,
    A. Wik / Amanda (no, not sure what my name is!)

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  6. Kim, I get the feeling that you know more about this situation then you are saying. I have heard rumors of abuse, and I just wonder if that is what was happening? It is my opinion that Kyron is with a good, religious family somewhere in the United States being raised in the lap of luxury with a new brother or two. Just my opinion.

    What do you think? Is that scenario in the realm of possibility? I hope so. I hope Kyron is happy and being taken very good care of.

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    1. No, we must find him.. at least know hes alive then get him sighned over to a family a new one just please people we must find him dont lose hope.

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  7. Hi Anon,

    I only know what I can find online - part of which was that Kyron's uncle has a record of child sex offenses. That kind of abuse often runs in families and so when you put all of the evidence together it would seem likely to me that Terri hasn't murdered Kyron but is protecting him from his father. As to where he is now I can only hazard a guess that it would only be other victims of (or who are part of) his fathers family that would understand the need for such a drastic step to be taken.

    So yes -- particularly as there is not a shred of forensic evidence to show that Kyron was harmed and the fact that Terri waited until he got his science project in (that he was obviously excited about) and that he is smiling so lovingly at her in that 'last' photograph of him they show all the time -- I would say there is a good chance Kyron is alive and hopefully doing well in a new home.

    Kim

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  8. Hi A. Wik,

    You have certainly done a lot of personal analysis!

    When I mentioned that NPD can be confused with SPD I was meaning from the point of view of others. When a person is being aloof and indifferent it can be very hard for people close to them to judge whether this coldness is detachment or arrogance.

    This is why people with SPD can unwittingly attract a lot of aggression and even violence towards themselves as their detachment isn't seen as lack of involvement but instead as arrogance and extreme indifference.

    On another subject you raised ... reading your post Vitamin A deficiency came into my mind as a good metaphor -- because this one deficiency can manifest as asthma, eczema or eyesight problems.

    In a similar way I believe that personality disorders and other mental health and relationship problems can not only present together as you suggest (the comorbidity rate in personality disorders is indeed very high) but similar to the Vitamin A analogy they are also probably caused by similar things.

    In psychology we are often led to look for what outside stimulus caused the effect -- but I would suggest that the most important cause (because it can be treated) is the skill that wasn't learned in this process.

    For example. If my mother regularly threatened to abandon me in the supermarket etc. to try and modify my behavior as a child -- that may be seen as the cause and my later addictions and personality disorder the effect. I would suggest however that the real cause of my addictions and personality disorder in this case would be the fact that I lacked a healthy role model to learn healthy attachment and boundary setting skills from.

    Dwelling on the pain of the past won't fix my problem, but learning healthy attachment and boundary setting skills from a good role model now will.

    The great news is that not only are we still able to learn these skills when we are older but in fact it has been proved that it is easier than when we were children. Our ability to learn these skills doesn't peak until we are well into our 40's and then only tapers off gradually. We have in fact had testimonials from people well into their 70's who have made major shifts in the dynamics of their relationships.

    Analyzing all of this in your head is one thing and CAN help you find peace and live a little easier with yourself (because understanding brings forgiveness) but if you want to live more easily with other people the skills you are missing will still need to be learned from someone at sometime.

    There is no shame in not having learned these skills growing up. Some of us even had healthy role models but these skills still didn't come naturally and took more work.

    One way or another there is hope.

    That is what we offer and I believe The Little Book of Empathy Love and Friendship and The Love Safety Net Workbook would be an enormous asset to you in your very worthwhile search for peace and understanding.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.NarcissismCured.com

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  9. I have come to the conclusion that Kyron's dad took him to hide the evidence of sexual abuse because the step mom wanted to take him to the doctor since she suspected abuse. Do you feel Kyron's dad is a narcissist or what is your reasoning why Kyron is better off? Because of the sexual abuse or more than that?

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  10. The timing of his disappearance (just after he had put a science project in that he was very excited about and proud of) and the fact that there is not one shred of DNA to show he was harmed - along with the evidence of his step mothers involvement makes me suspect that Terri has delivered him to another family member and he is in hiding. Just look at the smile on his face looking at Terri (taking the photo) in front of his science project. He trusts her and I would say with good reason. I don't think Terri wanted Kyron or her older son to have to testify against Kyron's dad and so she has sacrificed herself to 'save him'. The fact that she timed him to leave for his new home after he got his science project in - to me shows that she is very understanding and empathetic and her actions also show an enormous amount of courage and valor. For these reasons I can only guess that the plan she came up with is indeed probably the best plan she had available to her for Kyron's well being.

    It is obviously not a great ending however as the community is devistated that he may have been harmed and now his little sister is in danger too (it would seem). This is why I suggest that Kyron's older step brother be called in and allowed to testify in private with a media ban on his involvement in the case.

    I certainly do hope I am right and the cute little guy is Okay!

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.NarcissismCured.com

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  11. I suspect step mom was trying to communicate her concerns to bio-mom who would not listen. Maybe Kaine was afraid Kyron would be questioned by his mom that weekend since he was suppose to stay the weekend with her.

    Regardless, I believe this is a family issue and someone in the family has him safe.

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  12. The only problem I have with your premise is that the step mother would have protected her daughter from Kaine as well. Apparently the father still has custody of the little girl. Would the step mother have sacrificed her own daughter for her step son? Or do you believe the father is only interested in little boys? I read the father's brother was convicted for molesting a girl so wouldn't the step mother believe her little girl was just as vulnerable as her step son?

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  13. Hi anon,

    I do not think Terri had envisaged that her actions would cause her daughter to end up in Kaine's care. I think she is probably feeling desperate now and if Kaine isn't somehow brought to justice - we may see an attempt on Kaine's life from either Terri or another family member who knows about the child abuse.

    To the person who sent information and asked me not to post it; can you please provide references for your allegations? I am interested but they really don't fit with any of the facts that I have seen so far.

    Kim Cooper
    NarcissismCured.com

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  14. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that but clearly you did not follow the investigation closely and more clearly, you do not actually know these people. I can't say I know Kaine but I do work at the same place and have met him. Meeting someone doesn't clarify whether or not they are a child molester but you can certainly tell if someone is being genuine by looking into their eyes.

    Above all that, I'm pretty sure the Portland Police department or the FBI would have found Kyron if he were with other family members or even friends of family. They sure as hell would not have placed the daughter with Kaine if they had reason to believe there was sexual abuse. Furthermore, do you really think such allegations would have been kept on the down low with the media frenzy that ensued upon our town? I highly doubt it.

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  15. No I haven't met these people - I live on the other side of the world! I would certainly challenge the idea however that you can tell if someone is a child molester from looking them in the eye!

    Also from my reading of it at a fairly early stage of the investigation the police very abruptly called of searching for a body in favour of interrogating Terri, whom they couldn't 'crack' even after 5 days straight questioning.

    This makes me think that the police do know Kyron is not dead - but just don't know who he is with.

    Okay all supposition of course but really I just share my ideas here as examples of how things can sometimes be different than what they seem.

    Very few childmolesters get caught - let alone the narcissists who scape goat and neglect their kids. The first conclusion people seem to jump to is always psychopath. I am just offering some alternative ideas that try and shed light on the many other mental disorders that cause family abuse.

    Kim Cooper
    www.Narcissism,Cured.com

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  16. Anon didn't say you can tell if someone is a child molester by looking them in the eye, she/he actually said you can't tell if someone is a child molester by looking at them, but you can tell if they are genuine by looking in their eye.

    Whether that's true or not, given she/he is acquainted with these people and lives in the same town, her/his opinion is of great interest, I think.

    I'm not sure it's surprising that making allegations like these would suprise/upset people who are closer to the case that you are.

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  17. Hi anon,

    Yes I agree - that is why I said what I did in my last comment about the general purpose of me putting forward my ideas.

    I will add however that I was first put onto this case by people much closer to the events than myself and they did think my theory made a lot of sense.

    I guess the point that stands out to me here is the idea of whether you can tell if a person is genuine from looking them in the eye.
    This is really at the heart of what this issue is about to me. Or to make it crystal clear -- better profiling narcissistic behavior.

    The two faced nature of these individuals, including their skill at both charming people they are lying to and building a case against someone else to pin their crimes on is EXACTLY what I first look for in this type of case.

    Maybe this crime was committed by a psychopath and Kyron was murdered - I don't pretend to be close enough to the investigation to know that. The rate of psychopaths in the community however is so small that no one even gives it a percentage of population and no one involved seems to fit that profile, neither do the facts of the case.

    NPD and sociopathy on the other hand are in comparison far more common and as these people are rarely diagnosed, and are skilled liars, it is probably far more common in the community than we think.

    So statistically I believe it is probably wise to first see if anyone in the case fits the profile of someone with these symptoms rather than straight off looking for a psychopath (as it seems most people have).

    I do not know if child abuse runs in Kaine's family but with the facts of the case I have seen so far I would think it needs to be considered a real possibility that would explain a lot of otherwise unexplained details of the case.

    When narcissistic traits get handed down from generation to generation in a family the ability to cover the abusive and immoral behaviour with lies to throw people off the scent is usually a skill that is passed along as well.

    In other words people with these disorders are often trained to be good liars from birth!

    There were many detectives in history who became very famous for solving cases by straight off suspecting the person who claimed they knew exactly where they where at the time of the crime or in other words - who was the fastest to put forward an alibi.

    This doesn't necessarily pertain to this case but the same general theory applies.

    Just because someone looks innocent doesn't mean that they are.

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  18. Another general rule to look for is that just because someone threw a punch (Terri wanting Kaine dead) doesn't mean they started the fight.

    If facts don't fit together I believe that is usually where the lie can be disclosed (if someone has good reasoning skills). All too often in today's society however a person is found guilty simply on the grounds of who people think LOOKS innocent or guilty -- and facts that don't fit that version of events are pushed aside.

    This happened clearly in the Caylee Anthony case.

    There was not enough evidence (facts) to find Casey guilty but people still assume her guilt because to them she LOOKS guilty.

    They say "But why would she not have reported Caylee missing?" and leave it at that without looking at who really benefited from Caylee's death and thinking long and hard enough to come up with some possible scenarios that might explain why Casey may have been tricked into not reported her daughter missing.

    This may seem far fetched to someone who doesn't live in an abusive family - but it is not far fetched here. A lot of people on this site have lived with abuse all their lives and know all to well how easy it is for the charming and likable members of their family to get away with murder while blaming it on less innocent looking (but truly innocent) family members.

    Are the starving people in Africa able to point one finger of blame at their politicians who use aid money intended for them to build themselves mansions? These guys are charming and educated and well dressed so how can a poor starving child oppose them?

    It is all the same principle.

    Who gained the most from Caylee's death? I would say it was George. He went from nearly being chucked out on the street with his wife signing his share of the house over to Casey -- to him being Cindy's 'rock' and head of a missing children's foundation (that bought his brother's boat) and paid a fortune every time he and Cindy appear on national TV.

    And that nasty Casey who nearly usurped him in the family? Well we all know what happened to her (and who is going to believe her side of the story now?).

    Similarly I ask "Who lost the most from Kyron's disappearance?" I would say that had to be Terri. It seems to me that similar to Casey she has lost just about everything.

    This in itself doesn't make her innocent but to me it also makes me question what her motive in killing Kyron could possibly have been?

    Oh and for the record. Many people closer to this case have written to me off the record and while some disagree with my conclusions - so far all believe Kaine responsible for Kyron's disappearance.

    Just to be fair to Terri I would like to see the police question Kaine for 5 days straight! Then we might get some better answers.

    Oh and thanks so much for sharing your ideas. I know my ideas run against the grain for many people - but hopefully by just looking a little closer and asking a few more questions we might start changing the culture that allows too many of these crimes to go unsolved.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.NarcissismCured.com

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  19. Hiring someone to kill takes planning and premeditation. A local commented that Terri suddenly had a lot of money to pay for a good attorney. Human trafficking happens everywhere nowadays, as does organ sales, etc. I don't know enough about this case to intelligently discuss it, as I don't know the people involved. Someone who might sell a child for money, have the money to pay for the husband's death, and perhaps profit with life insurance, has found a circuitous pay-off.
    In the case of a child disappearing, the law needs to require (multiple) lie detector tests (with different operators) and intense questioning of all parties.
    Besides having their share of cold cases and human trafficking, Portland is second only behind Alaska for rape. Is it the drinking, thinking, or lack of sun?

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  20. @AnonymousFeb 12, 2012 03:25 PM,

    "A local commented that Terri suddenly had a lot of money to pay for a good attorney."

    That's simply not true and just because a local says it doesn't mean they know anything. Terri's lawyer stated in court and under oath that the money came from a third party and that it was a gift.

    It's amazing how much bad information is being circulated as fact in this terribly sad case. Common sense seems to be lacking in much of the commentary I read on the internet regarding this case.

    At this point in time I don't believe Terri Horman is responsible. Her time line simply doesn't allow for her to harm Kyron then dispose of him , clean up and resume her morning. It is my opinion that someone who commits this type of crime makes sure they have an alibi. They cover their tracks or they simply disappear. Terri Horman was the first one to alert people that Kyron was missing. When he didn't get off the bus, she called 911 on the spot using the bus drivers phone after he called the school to check and see if Kyron was there waiting for his parents.

    With regards to being molested. I don't know if there is any real evidence of that in so far as Kaine abusing his son (it's just as possible as the next theory I suppose) and I don't mean any disrespect to the person who commented about knowing someone is genuine by looking into their eyes but some of the best (worst) manipulators, abusers and serial killers fooled their victims by appearing genuine and trusting. Ted Bundy by far was a master at making people trust him.

    There is a possibility that Kyron was taken by a pedophile. This blogger: http://missingpieceofthepuzzle.blogspot.com/2012/02/storm-in-teacup-or-is-it-perfect-storm.html brings up some very interesting points. You might want to read it and a few other posts they made concerning Kyron Horman's case. It has opened my eyes to a few things and I can say with confidence that I don't believe Terri Horman is behind this.

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  21. Terri did it. The people who say otherwise need a check-up from the neck up.

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    1. Totally and completely agree!!! Thank you---finally, words of wisdom!

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  22. I cannot believe that you could no all the facts in the case and still make the assertions you are making. I am actually in shock. Please, please read all aspects of the case before making assertions that Terry was "protecting" Kyron---and don't forget she was the last person to be seen with him and had a history of deep enmity against him. I just cannot believe what I have been reading here. . .

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  23. The last person to be seen with Kyron? By who and where? I wish people here who claim I know nothing about this would offer a few facts and not just emotive opinion. I also wonder what you mean by Terri having a history of deep enmity towards Kyron? Do you have evidence of this? And even so does that really equal her killing him in cold blood!

    I could be wrong about this case for sure - I am on the other side of the planet - but maybe you don't get the point of this blog. The fact is that very few people understand the real nature of family abuse. We have had psychopaths waved at us like puppets on sticks from every dark corner in every police show for so long that now it is all people can think of.

    Ordinary family abuse is very different and people are terrible at picking the perpetrator!

    For instance;

    I watch parents tell off the wrong kid at the table all the time. It goes something like this ...

    Kid A kicks kid B under the table while looking the other way. Kid B says "Hey knock it off !" and kicks them back. Kid A then says "I did not, leave me alone", and then says, "Mum, B kicked me!" And guess what? B gets in trouble yet again! Then while mother is telling off kid B (and facing the other way) kid A sticks their tongue out at kid B.

    Did you follow that?

    So no I don't believe that it is so obvious to tell if someone is guilty - parents can't even see who the culprit is with their own children when they are sitting right there in front of them at the table.

    But they think they know. They are just sure it is kid B because kid B doesn't suck up to them and try and be favorite all the time like kid A (the culprit) does.

    So frankly I am not concerned by what you are shocked by or what you can or cannot believe. I have simply presented a few facts of the case here with a plausible explanation of how they might fit together. Since this has been posted I have been sent so much utter nonsense (much of which I haven't posted because the people writing in ask me not to) trying to make me believe stuff with no evidence, just wild rumors and opinion.

    Please send in facts that can be substantiated or don't post here at all. There is not one piece of DNA, no weapon and no motive so Terri did what? This is a missing persons case and not a murder until someone proves otherwise.

    So yes I am agreeing Terri 'disappeared' Kyron - but to where and why? No one else seems to have any theories on this at all.

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  24. There are emails stating Terri Hated Kyron, Let's not forget those. Who hires someone to kill their husband? Terri is guilty and Her buddy Dede Spicher helped her.

    Whoever started this blog is full of crap. There is no Pity for Terri. The only Victim Here is Kyron. Kyron has been the only Victim. When Will Terri Open Her Mouth and end this? Never. She's guilty and Most know it. Why do you think she's been mute all this time.. Her day will come.. It's coming..

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  25. Women who are being abused (or whose children are being abused) kill their husbands all the time. (See http://www.narcissismdailymirror.com/2010/06/astounding-case-of-murder.html)

    I am not saying that is what happened here just that it is a possibility - really I am just answering your question.

    If there are emails or any other new evidence can you please give links to them? What everybody apparently knows doesn't help people looking to understand this case from reading about it.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Thanks to the person who sent the link and information about Logan Storm. That was indeed very interesting and I agree that anyone who commits this type of crime usually has an alibi prepared.

    And for the record - I do not approve comments here from people who are insulting or abusive to anyone and that includes myself.

    If you want your comment posted please give references for your claims and refrain from abusive language.

    ReplyDelete
  27. For your interest ...

    http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12134-troubled_family.html

    ReplyDelete
  28. Hello kimcoo
    I do know from my years of listening to cases of child sexual abuse, spousal abuse from victims and family members that child sexual abuse tends to run in families. I can say because Kaine's brother was accused of molestation does not warrant anyone assuming Kaine is an abuser. I suppose that would be looked at regardless of the brother's situation just because LE look at these situations from all angles. Having said that, I think it is a bit per-mature to make accusations of sexual abuse on Kaine's part for a motive for Kyron's disappearance or why Terri Horman would have acted on such. My Question is : Realistically , If in fact Terri is involved in Kyron's disappearance why after 2 years later, would she still withhold this information about sexual abuse on Kaine's part? If she is caring and sensitive why would she not go to authorities with these allegations? Why after the outcome of losing her daughter to Kaine, would she still not step up to the plate and let it all known. Why would she not call on Desiree for help in the matter. They have interviewed the Step Son of Kaine (terri's son )according to what I have read, and I do not doubt that at all. He made respectful comments about Kaine is what was written.. true or not, why would he not also speak up if Kaine was sexually abusing him or abusing him to any extent?? Another post , Terri states Kyron was acting funny, he had walked into the room seen her there and turned and left abruptly. WHY?? if that is true as stated in the post ...why? Could Terri's older son had been molesting Kyron? She rid him to protect her Son? I really cringe at that thought, but it does happen much more that we could even imagine. I have heard stories of such. (which are being addressed by authorities) (*taken care of). In reference to supporting Terri in this matter. I refuse to support anyone who will not talk when a matter like this is being investigated. If she has stated all she knows and is protecting herself, why is she not protecting Kiara. The only possible abuse that she would be hiding fact of would be her son's abuse or her own abuse towards Kyron. Kids are very perceptive. If someone does not like them they know it. I believe this is one of two situations. She is protecting her son or Kyron seen something she did not want him to tell. Sending him out to be with other parents to protect him DOES NOT MAKE SENSE to me. The hurt Kyron would go through would be unimaginable, I know, I was separated from my family at a young age for a time. It was the worst hurt I have ever felt. Kyron has a natural Mother who had tried to get him so Terri knew he was welcome. Terri likely suffered separation anxiety at the hands of her biological Mother giving her up for adoption I would suspect that from new findings that a child knows his Mother from the time of conception. There are many facts that will be uncovered by the Law Suit filed by Desiree Young and there needs to be. I have been following this since the beginning and Thanks to "Aarons Law" Desiree has a path to take. Regardless of where Kyron is better off, it is needless to say his family has a right to know where he is and how he got there. We read , we surmise, we pray and hope for answers. My heart yearns for Desiree and Kaine. Actions speak and every picture tells a story. When Terri stomped and snugged Desiree's arm in the televised statement, it struck me like an arrow. It was phoney..definitely phoney to me. What good Mother could raise a baby from 2 weeks old to 7 years old and kill or dispose , sell, trade, or hurt him? One who is protecting their self or their own flesh and blood perhaps. Since Terri is not talking I feel this burden is pointed at the right person. At least it is where I would start. And so be it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes they are all good questions!

      I never saw transcripts of interviews with Terri's son but I would be very interested to see them. I have only offered one possible scenario that fits with the pattern of family abuse. I am no expert on child sexual abuse but many people who comment on this site will tell you the lengths an abusive partner will go to to scapegoat discredit and blame them.

      By the time Terri lost her daughter to Kaine I doubt her telling would have done much to change things. She would then be charged with kidnapping and have no chance of getting her daughter back. As I mention in my short piece on this I do not condone anyone trying to kill their husband or kidnap a child. I am not saying Terri is innocent - just that there is a scenario that I can see that might explain some of the facts (as they have been preseneted) in this case - and that no I do not believe she killed Kyron.

      Delete
  29. FYI

    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2116480,00.html?iid=obinsite

    ReplyDelete
  30. Thanks kimcoo for the links here. I had read http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12134-troubled_family.html before and the history of the Horman family does bring into focus the possibility of other scenario's however.. due to the fact Terri failed 2 polygraph tests and has changed her story about her where abouts and times really is suspect although the focus has been on Terri so much I have yet to hear accounts where the Horman Uncle was at that time and details of Kaine's morning. I am sure LE have all that and guessing I would say Kaine cleared as did his brother and other family members or there would have been talk in the Media. It appears they know more and are waiting for all the puzzle pieces to fit into place before an arrest. When the FBI become involved in the investigation I was hopeful. They are so very smart at deciphering even the most intricate detail yet nothing yet has come out of their coming to Oregon. I am sure something is about to be revealed soon. Eldon Rosenthal is a very prestigious Attorney. Desiree is in good hands. Articles about him are Amazing. He has been deemed the #1 civil attorney in the USA at one point.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I personally know Young, Kyron's mother.

    She has never spoken of abuse from Kaine, and had received letters from Terri expressing her hate for Kyron.

    I am sad to say I fully believe Kyron is dead.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Terri is the prime suspect! That's it. I find is bull**** that
    she also isn't locked up for attempted murder to Kaine. I mean
    she is the only lead in this case, and the fact she refuse to
    answer questions to the media, leads to the idea that she's hiding
    something. I mean, she failed every polygraph test giving to her.
    And also, she was the last to see the victim, and stated she last
    seen him walking to class! Oh wait, didn't she change that and said the victim had a doctor's appointment? Which statement is true here? Anybody know? So investigators expect to solve the case without Terri (there prime suspect), and try to gather evidence that will lead them to the victim! Not gonna work.
    she was taking the victim to a doctor's appointment?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Terri is the prime suspect!

    ReplyDelete
  34. This is really a sad story and I fear for Kyron's life. What I don't understand is what happened with Terri trying to hire someone to kill Kyron's father. Isn't murder for hire no longer considered a serious crime?

    ReplyDelete
  35. If she loved Kyron she would speak out.

    ReplyDelete
  36. If there were reasonable pieces of evidence that Terri Horman tried to hire someone to murder her then-husband, why hasn't she been arrested 4 years later? Even though this editorial seems to find the MFH with cause, it still assumes she is guilty of that crime. Why?

    ReplyDelete
  37. Why would Terri take Kyron to school for 45 mins before she drove him to safety? I'm sorry your theory makes absolutely no sense, if Kyron was being abused his step father was a Policeman and he has a loving and caring Mother, their would have been many other ways to assure his safety

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because he was excited to get his science project in. Look at how he smiles at her holding it up for the camera. She didn't kill Kyron and there is not one shred of evidence he is dead.

      Delete

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