Narcissism Spotting

Narcissism in famous individuals, movie characters and celebrities - including pictures ...

Again this week we see stories 
mixing the psychopath and the 
narcissist, like the one here in 
psychology today


Is Joran van der Sloot really a 
narcissist? He certainly has created 
chaos, but will comparing narcissists to serial killers really help us recognize and understand the narcissistic personality better?



Let's see if we can end this 
confusion ...
 

Let's start with a classic narcissist;  
Gilderoy Lockhart  from  
"Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets". Gilderoy's character (played by Kenneth Branagh), authored numerous books (all about himself and his own adventures) and entertained hoards of adoring female fans. 


While his lies and eventual 
cowardice did put lives at risk and 
he did wipe people's memory (if 
their memories did not serve his 
fantasy portrayal of himself) 
showing no empathy or remorse 
for his actions, his main motivation was to be loved (rather than feared) and his only sadism was perhaps his bad habit of relentlessly boring people.
 
Anjelica Huston brought to life a sensational portrayal of the female narcissist character, Baroness Rodmill De Ghent in Andy Tennant's 1998 movie "Ever After"


More sadistic than Gilderoy 
certainly, while also more abusive, 
controlling and conniving - but still 
not the brutal killer Joran van der  
Sloot has confessed to be. 
 
 


"Ever After" is a moving version of 
Cinderella (which I highly 
recommend if you haven't seen).


Another great actor playing 'the  
despicable narcissist' is Matt Ross 
as 'Hunter' - in the movie "Just visiting". Another gem of a movie you shouldn't miss, particularly to watch as his wife learns to stand up to him.







This is a fairytale style story - 
but the cheating and exploitative 
side of Hunter's narcissistic 
personality is all too close to 
reality. "Just visiting" is also a side 
splitting comedy!


For comic relief, Steve's choice is 
always Miss Piggy - but before you 
laugh - how about those karate 
chops and the depth and breadth of her put-downs (when anyone comes between her royal pigginess 
and what she is after)!







We have all wondered for years why Kermit puts up with her, but then she can be so sweet and does have star quality ...

In an older movie we see 'classic 
self-serving narcissism' in 
Orson Welles as Harry Lime in
"The Third Man."









This movie may be old and in black 
& white, but unfortunately the plot of the story is just as topical today.


Simultaneously funny and tragic 
(and not in black & white), PJ Hogan's 
1994 movie Muriel's Wedding 
is probably the best 
portrayal ever of the tragedy and 
chaos that narcissism can wreak on 
a family. 


Each in their own individual ways, 
Bill Heslop (played by Bill Hunter
and Muriel Heslop (played by
Toni Collette) are both brilliant 
examples of the narcissistic 
personality, with Muriel a truly awe 
inspiring role model for recovery ...






For something slightly more modern
and theatrical, and a great laugh
too, just try keeping a straight face
watching Hank Azaria as
'Kah-Mun-Rah' in
"Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian". 




Hank is definitely our family's 
favorite bad guy and plays the  
'dominating, intimidating narcissist'
very well. He is also a brilliant comedian!




Now for some real life examples ...
all much harder to come by, due to
the fact that we do not see so
deeply into real people's lives as we
do characters portrayed in movies, 
but here are a few with tendencies 
we have noted ...

Firstly Barbara Bush for her 
astounding displays of haughtiness 
and lack of empathy for others ... 
Barbara Bush Controversy - (despite
her other charitable good deeds).
 



Gordon Ramsey - the Scottish chef - 
for his even fouler mouth and habit 
of insulting people in public when 
they are not present to defend 
themselves.







 
Eliot Spitzer has got 'the hypocrisy 
of the narcissistic personality' all 
stitched up with his public crime 
fighting image now three times 
damaged by incongruous (and 
sometimes criminal) behaviour 
behind the scenes.





ONE

TWO and

THREE Strikes your out Eliot!





 

And the man whose private life we 
have all heard way too much about.  
'Bad boy and home wrecking 
narcissist' that Tiger Woods has 
proved himself to be, he has 
certainly NOT been accused of hiding 
girls' dead bodies ...











And late breaking news
"Tantrum-chucking narcissist' 
Naomi Campbell is at it again ...














 OK so that's all I can come up with for today but if you send in your ideas I will post more.

Before you sit back and feel smug however, please remember the most challenging place to find narcissism is at home in the mirror.

It is the place you should start however, if you want a peaceful, loving life.

- Do you gossip about others behind their backs?
(I guess we have been doing that here and I hope that we have stayed honest and respectful (-:).

- Do you blame the problems in your life on others without looking at your own shortcomings?
- Do you fantasize about a life in which you will be loved and admired
(at the expense of your family around you)?

- Do you behave badly when you don't get your way?

Narcissism is easy to spot in others but so much harder to see in ourselves, but as we all want to be loved (deep down), let's not shy away from this challenge ...

Here are three ideas to help topple your false pride;

a. Admit something you are embarrassed about to someone close to you (and that you are embarrassed about it) and apologize if you need to.
b. If you have addictions, be honest with yourself and start to tackle them.
c. Vow to work on the small gaps in your character and admit to yourself that you must learn to crawl and walk before you keep trying to fly ...

Till next time,

hang in there (-:

Kim Cooper
http://www.narcissismcured.com

102 comments:

  1. I'm thinking Tom Cruise has to be up there too!

    ReplyDelete
  2. YEAH,I had that Vandersloot kid pegged as a narcissist,from the get go , and I'd classify the Green River Killer, Gary Ridgeway as one as well,some times ,most times narcissists don't kill ,but I'm coming to a theory that all serial killers are narcissists

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hello....Hitler, Sadam, Obama!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. really .... obama?

      Delete
    2. yeah really sorry to disappoint you

      Delete
  4. Castro, Pelosi, Limbaugh

    ReplyDelete
  5. I think the point she was trying to make is that serial killers are more likely to be pathological and have no conscience or remorse, whereas narcissists do care what people think and do have remorse. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Narcissits lack remorse. They also lack empathy.

      Delete
    2. they care what people think in the sense that they want to admired, respected, acknowledged for their accomplishments, strengths and all the things they think are wonderful about them. when they fail to get that acceptance, they become angry. then everything wrong in their lives becomes the direct faults of those closest to them, namely their spouses and children.

      Delete
    3. there's different degrees and types of narcissism. not all narcissists become serial killers or are pathological.

      Delete
    4. My son in law attacks me each time that he gets a chance. He is an x wall street man. He seems to think that he is the best at everything. He picks arguments with me in front of my daughter with her head hanging down. He brow beats my daughter but it's her marriage. This last blow to me last week, I confronted him and he didn't know what to do. Whats up with that?

      Delete
  6. Hi Everyone,

    And yes that is the point I was trying to make anon, even though psychopaths are certainly always self centered and liars etc, the motivation I think is completely different. One wants to be loved and the other wants to be feared. I can see the similarities - but when we start putting Hitler and Miss Piggy on the same spectrum this is bound to create a lot of confusion.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  7. Replies
    1. The only kind of person who'd label Barack Obama a Narcissist is either incredibly stupid, racist or a complete arsehole who probably thinks that Sarah Palin would make an excellent president and still believes in god and the tooth fairy.

      Delete
  8. True, Hitler and van der Sloot don't belong in the same category as Miss Piggy. Some are simply narcissists...some are narcissistic psychopaths.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Barack Obama - God help us all!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. barack obama? he does care about the well being of others. like it or not, republicans. that removes him entirely out of the narcissistic category.

      Delete
  10. The thing about celebrities is, they need to have an angle - something they are known for: Naomi Campbell - tantrums, Gordan Ramsey - rude, insulting. Each one of them is a brand in the market place that must be promoted in order to be successful. All the media attention just leads to massively increased public awareness and therefore sales. In a competitive marketplace, the more outrageous the behaviour the better.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. celebrities love to be looked at and noticed, in a HUGE way.

      Delete
  11. Pay close attention when people speak of Hitler, Sadam, and our current President in the same statement as a comparison. This is alarming to say the least. It is good to bring attention to this matter because if u have lived with narcissism then u know that others need to be aware of this realization and the true negative impacts that are very possible for r country. If nothing more, I pray for good to prevail!

    ReplyDelete
  12. Good post. There is a huge difference between a psychopath or anti social deviant and a narcissist. There may well be different types of narcissist too. One thing that I often wonder is why some of us are attracted to narcissist types in the first place. I think co dependency comes to mind. In some ways I used to feel clueless about who I was or what I wanted in life. I am developing a "me" now and that took almost a life time. I think in time research and personal stories like yours will increase our awareness. One thing I am becoming better at is spotting a narcissist. Some red flags go up and that is a good thing.

    Nancy Lake, Payson, Arizona

    ReplyDelete
  13. Did you ever see the movie "The Oscar" from 1966 staring Stephen Boyd? The best portrait of an NPD. Talk about wanting to be admired. How cruel he was to others and how they put up with it. I saw it many years ago and recently saw it again. He is a textbook case.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Come on people, Miss Piggy? We are comparing a puppet, a fictional character to real people? I think another point to be considered within the difference between a narcissist and other mental illnesses is the need for power. I don't think it is common for a narcissist to yearn to have power. Rather, wanting the spot light, love, and to be worshiped regardless what they do or how many they hurt. They think that it is their God given right above all others and in spite of all others. In reality, they have no idea what real love is.

    ReplyDelete
  15. about 15 years ago I began the journey out of bondage from my NPD wife. Althouth, I had no understanding or 'framework' of what it was called .... in knew something was terribly wrong .... and I was allowing myself to be controlled and manipulated. well after all of these years of her attempting to keep me in her 'box' and me refusing to be put there she filed for divorce (about 9 months ago).
    The last 3 years have been total HELL. There is absolutely no reasoning with her … her way or the highway …. No ability to feel or understand the impact of her behavior has on others. Everyone else has a disease or disorder that only she sees and can ‘cure’…. and she will spare no effort or expense to fix you….
    Kim, after reading about your husband’s journey to a healthy relationship I thought I have not done enough to make my marriage work …. But that is really not the case …. After years and years of counseling and many counselors telling her the same things she still refuses to recognize \ acknowledge that she has a huge problem.

    Well, after the divorce is final her problem will no longer be mine …… I guess it has not ever been my problem anyway but I am just now able to make that a reality in my own life …..
    I am looking forward to entering into a relationship with a woman who has the ability to love ….

    ReplyDelete
  16. I think the heartbreaking thing about narcissism is how, in the end, it can break up a marriage or a close friendship, and that there is no recognition of any 'wrong-doing' on the narcissist's part. Please note that I put wrong-doing in inverted commas, as this is just a general term I have used and is not meant to label anyone. The long term consequences of any self indulgent personality is that they end up missing out of the very thing they are seeking...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes...they miss out on the very thing they so desperately need. Right there in front of them, yet they kick it away.

      Delete
  17. Joy Peace and Love to All!!!
    Thank You for sharing these Truths..

    ReplyDelete
  18. What about the rap performer, Mr. Dre, who calls himself "Doctor" Dre even though he never went to graduate school. If you want to be a musician, there are two directions from which to choose. You can train for years, practicing hard for hours a day and studying at a conservatory such as Julliard, if you have the gift and the inspiration to do it and become a musician who implicitly presumes the humanity of your audience, or you can become a pop star and enjoy the bicycle tire pumps to the self esteem the title "rock star" has to offer without all the sustained effort.
    At an autism conference in 2003 I briefly spoke with a lady who is so sensitive to the linear drum beats of pop music that it makes her throw up. Her neighbors often turned up their stereos out of spite when she complained about it and thought it was fun to torture her into throwing up. That is why I distrust pop music culture and I do not want it in my life. I greatly suspect that there is too much narcissism in pop culture.

    ReplyDelete
  19. How do we know at what point in time a sociopath commits an act of violence? Were they narcissistic until they snapped? I think this type of personality can progress to unthinkable behaviors. The Scott Pedersons and OJ Simpsons were charming and well liked and didn't spend a lifetime killing people. Some sociopaths live a lifetime with no acts of violence but emotionally and psycologically wreak havoc on their victims.

    ReplyDelete
  20. it seems the difference is one of degree. some ns just don't go as far as psychopaths. i don't see ns having any shame for their bad behavior, not unless they are caught red-handed. then their shame may be a sham in order to get people off their case. i agree some ns have some compassion for some people in some cases, but certainly not the people they hurt. for the people they hurt, it was justified in their mind.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Always justified. They will twist it to MAKE it your fault no matter what. If they sexually ignore you for months or years until you finally cheat, it is YOUR fault for cheating. If they cheated on you first they will claim they didn't and you "lost it" or "didn't trust them" and "ruined" the relationship. It will ALWAYS be the victim's fault. They will FIND a way to justify it, even if it is a complete lie.

      Delete
  21. I guess I can only be sure about my ex and how she profiled .... on one hand she would suck up incredibly to people she admired, and treat everyone else with cold abandon. At a marriage course (thru our church) she would score in the 20% area for me (knowing your partners likes and dislikes), so much so I used to slip her the answers under the table:)
    One psychological profile we did together, she profiled with extreme levels of confidence and on family orientation was far out in the bottom left quarter.
    She was the most manipulative person I have ever met, intelligent, and cold. After fifteen years of marriage and four years of seperation and divorce there is next to nothing to miss.
    So the above people I wouldn't really know if they qualify as having NPD, but I knew one and that is sufficient for this lifetime.
    cheers

    ReplyDelete
  22. The one thing I've come to realize about narcissists is there exists a dichotomy between them wanting love and being emotionally unavailable individuals. They put forth the pretext of being emotionally open as it serves their purpose to gain admiration etc, however, they are incapable of opening up and becoming emotionally connected to another without putting in the work to see themselves for who and what they truly are and how their behavior negatively affects others and how to live from the standpoint of "we" rather than "me". I think narcissism to be part defense mechanism and again the work needs to be done to bring down the walls and face their fears otherwise they will continue to take the actions, or lack thereof, they always have. Sadly the narcissist does not fully realize that while their behavior brings them short term gain it ultimately causes them long term pain. They are kind of like addicts spending their time calculating and thinking about how to get their next "fix" because it is all about them feeling good and having their own needs met. They do whatever it takes and if/how they hurt others never enters into the equation. The empathy for others is just not present as they are wholly focused on themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  23. con thalas is diognosed and full of this evil illness

    ReplyDelete
  24. Well said!! I too believe that narcissim is rooted in low sef-esteem and an extension of a defense mechanism. However,somewhere along the line, the behavior gets completely out of hand. Narcissists profess to know all and be all, yet they are truly a shell of a person, incapable of connecting with another on a deep and personal level.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I have read elsewhere that some people think Obama is narcissistic. Why do you think he is Anonymous? (Curlyn)

    ReplyDelete
  26. I was wondering if anyone is familiar with Dr. George K. Simon's book "In Sheep's Clothing". He explains the difference between a character disordered person and a neurotic one. The character disordered person has a diminished sense of guilt and conscience, whereas the neurotic person blames themselves for everything! I see a hook here for a neurotic person to attach to a person with narcissistic tendencies, because they will feel sorry for them, etc.
    Dr. Simon explains that neurotics are the backbone of society because of their conscientiousness. It is important for anyone who has "neurotic" tendencies to become aware of their weaknesses so they can protect themselves from manipulation. This seemed important to me and I just wanted to share that thought.
    I also wondered if anyone has heard of the "Highly Sensitive Person" books that are out there. Highly sensitive people will be more tuned in to peoples' feelings, and may also be vulnerable to exploitation.
    My heart goes out to that autistic person who wrote about the neighbors that are so cruel. My son has very sensitive hearing. For a while we thought he was autistic until we read about highly sensitive peoples' characteristics. My son is now composing music! (instead of feeling bad about himself.) All this to say that if you are dealing with narcissism, it can be devastating for anyone, but especially for neurotic or highly sensitive people!

    ReplyDelete
  27. It's a fairly accurate take on NPD, Deb (at least from my experiences) and I am not sure if I should make comment on the comments posted above, I guess this one will be out to you Moderator:)
    I would like to say Deb I think you have nailed it.

    But my interest now lies in the nature nurture debate of sociopathology. Was my (N) socialised into being who she was? I can see her mum had quite a hand in this, but even the most selfish people will show empathy towards others?!!

    Or was it a case of being "wired" a little differently and then having the added hurdle of negotiating a mother that used her daughter to live out her own thwarted life dreams?

    Now my (N) was never bad all the time, but when she was bad she took on the persona of a spoilt child. So I have always assumed that my N's emotional development was halted a some stage, in some areas of her development.

    I can also see traits of this in one of her siblings, but not others. I guess it is important for me in very many areas to understand this aspect of her, as much for our own children.

    Does anyone have any neuropsychological research on this?
    cheers

    ReplyDelete
  28. LeeAnn- I will check out that book "In Sheep's Clothing". You make a good point re neurotic people being potential victims for NPDs.

    Lalla- Yes, I have caught Ns red-handed and confronted them. Instead of feeling remorse and apologizing, they become very angry and attempt to accuse me of "trapping them" or make up something I've done wrong to them. I used to get confused by their behavior. Now that I know more re N, I calmly counter their every move to manipulate and lie their way out of Responsibility.

    Discovering that you have been prey to Ns for much of your life is an Awakening to the beginning of a Second Life that will entail much less suffering. The Awakening begins with Anger and Resentment at the Ns who've disrespected you. As you learn more, you move to Understanding. You see that they became Ns due to their own childhood situation. Finally comes true deep Compassion. You see them as the broken child who is trying desperately to BE Somebody, or Get Love or Control the Ones Around them b/c they are Fearful. It Saddens your Heart and you send them Love in the midst of Gently, Lovingly Setting Your Boundaries. You Are FREE!

    ReplyDelete
  29. I felt I could have written the post of June 13, 1:31 am. The double standards, the disconnect from words and actions were confusing and gave me false hope. The divorce is over but the struggles continue as she uses the kids for manipulation and to try and change the rules when things don't go her way. Most would say the Friend of the Court is any thing but 'friendly' yet it is my cavalry to the rescue. Her defences are so highly refined, she is never responsible, it is always someonelses fault; she can not understand why I can't just do things her way.
    I still have my own issues but I am enjoying MY life again.

    Thanks
    steve

    ReplyDelete
  30. I totally agree with Obama as an N, he has that same zero learning curve thing and is always arguing with the public and recreating reality to support the disconnect between life on the ground and life as he sees it ...gah!

    ReplyDelete
  31. I agree with the last poster. I also think, Kim, that your comment re NPD driven by the need to be loved and adored where as the Psychopath is driven by the need to be feared of is an important one. But I think its equally important to understand that in both cases there is a pathological need for control and power - the self is 'OK' only once power is gained over someone else. And this is I think where it gets abusive. Once this need is broken - there is hope. I may be wrong but I sense this is the case.

    I love the Miss Piggy appearance here and the expressions of the other characters are so amazing... If only we were all so good at reading those expressions - would NPDs even stood a chance??

    I would agree with the danger in putting Hitler and Sadam in this list. I think they are in a list of their own!

    But I would add: the character - Frank Mackey (Tom Cruise) in the film Magnolia (which I love and think its a very clever film).

    Maya

    ReplyDelete
  32. Narcisstic people are Celiac (can't have dairy/gluten-whch is oats/barley/rye/wheat) and it is just the degree of how bad the Celiac is that determines how bad they are. It is a physical thing...Celiac affects the personlity. LDN blocks Celiac but not 100% so the diet is still needed...but it changes the personality fast. Low sunlight heritage or a culture who eats dairy and gluten and didn't in past historey maybe like a Celiac person. Celiac wrecks the intestines so you don't absorb nutrients and then it affects how the brain/cells/body works and makes health/personality issues happen. Getting celiac help can help change their personality....and also they may need to unlearn some coping mechanisms. www.enterolab.com helps to diagnose Celiac but blood tests/biospies may not work to diagnose it and doctors may not be trained in it.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Yes LeeAnne, I am the sensitive one and Deb you described my husband to a tee. I am physically ill and don't feel I have the stamina to re-parent my husband. He is Mr. Charm when he wants something of me and cold aloof, arrogant and verbally abusive when he doesn't. I basically don't exsist in his eyes most of the time. He is alway, always right in his opinions and actions. Any view I have is not worthy of an answer on most days. He is both the "Supreme Being" and the "Baby" all rolled into one.
    If anyone else is living with a NDP who has a strange, joined at the hip attachment with their mother, I would like to hear about it.

    Kim, I've never heard you talk about this particular quirk. Is it part of some NDP's personality traits. He spends so much time at his mother's house, most of our town think we live there because that is where they see our car sitting all the time. It's a lonley life!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I do live with an NDP who skypes his mommy every morning before doing anything else. Then they're on email and the phone. Always "talk" at least 3 x a day! She called me last weekend and went hysterical as to me making up all these stories (of things he was caught red-handed doing) and therefore causing all the trouble in this relationship. All the problems are my fault because he has NEVER lied, cheated, blah blah. He had aparently told her every detail and his pathetic excuses as well. I finally hung up on her, but the strange thing was...she sounded EXACTLY like him when he has his volcanic temper tantrums!!

      Delete
  34. One of the commments said his wife wanted to fix people...and only see understood. She may have understood about Celiac....which affected her and others in different ways. It may have made her narcissitic...but LDN can change Celiac personality as it helps to block Celiac. I feel sorry for the wife. She understands that the world is blind to Celiac perhaps and she sees the pattern. I would not cut her down...just help her to succeed in getting her message out to help others in a good way. Half of the population maybe Celiac but doctors are not helping them and then they get worse and suffer in personality and health of their body. To throw away a narcissitc person is not the goal in my opinion but help the situation. www.enterolab.com diagnoses Celiac but blood tests/biposies may not work to diagnose it and doctors are not trained in it. If you give a Celiac person drugs and not vitamins/good oils/gluten and dairy free diet/LDN which would help them...drugs make it worse with many sideffects and people not wanting to take the drugs. I am glad for this site....it brings awareness and hope/help and real tactics that work...but also they may need Celiac help because their brain/personality is affected.

    ReplyDelete
  35. fantastic information and illustration. Thank you for helping me spot these terrible people, please i would appreciate whether you send us information how we can deal and offend them or be immunised against there parasit attitudes. Thank you my freinds i will be speaking with you after commensing my studying Social Wealfer in university. Sincerely GADI

    ReplyDelete
  36. How can you trust someone or love someone that has killed any desire for any of that and all you want to do is treat them like a puppy and literally grab them by the neck and wash their face in their own shit? I have been pushed to my darkest side when dealing with and on again off again lover, one I think has NPD. I have also identified myself as a narcassist. I met this person during undergrad back when my motto was love em and leave em. Well we managed to hang on to eachother past college into the next decade. I ran off married someone else at some point in this. He thought it was the ultimate betrayal. Not to mention he had ran off almost a year earlier and left me hanging. After my marriage ended a whole other story, we were back at it again. We go back and forth leaving eachother hangin he always wants to see me on my last leg, but I always bounce back better than ever. Its a crazy ass cycle. I know it takes two. I realize its a very codependent emotionaly sadistic situation. When dealing with one or the other: I guess the both of us you will find yourself in the eye of the storm at some point. Im sure along the way our other lovers have just given up. He tells me Im always one step ahead I tell him but I never win. Are we addicted to the chase and mind screw!!!? I realize that a sound relationship will never work.

    He told me Im the only one on this planet that can actually make him feel bad. I he said it normally doesnt phase him.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Phil Spector, OJ Simpson, Joel Steinberg(Hedda Nussbaum's husband,who killed his adopted daughter Lisa Steinberg)To differentiate between narcissists and sociopaths, read 'The Sociopath Next Door' by Dr. Martha Stout. Serial killers are sociopaths-Claus Von Bulow,Ted Bundy,Charlie Manson or someone like Bernie Madoff. There is nothing they would not do since they have no feelings for anyone. Narcissists though lacking in empathy, usually have some heated emotions, but sociopaths are completely cold.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Picasso - a recent article in the UK Telegraph painted a classic picture(!)of an abusive / narcissistic personality. I believe 2 of his partners committed suicide, it's not easy being on the receiving end.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I think sociopathy is a more apt attribute for narcissism. And it varies with each narcissist! For instance I would put the ex 3-4 on a scale of 10. They do learn emotionally how to cope with their emotional deficits. Otherwise they wouldn't be such good manipulators. And there does seem to be a case of the narcissist picking their mark, hence the studies into partners of these people.
    I don't think anyone should beat themselves up with this though. I have met some of the ex's partners and they want to tell me all about her, I respectfully decline the information. A narcissist will choose anyone that they can mark. And there may be more complex reasons than the partners personality traits. So in my opinion you/we are not to blame here for fueling their exploitative beh.
    If anything and especially in my own experience an N will like a challenge in someone, (it caresses their inflated ego). But I do understand how some may feel here, I to have been there also.
    cheers

    ReplyDelete
  40. Very interesting comments...wanted to offer that "highly sensitive people" I believe are often co-dependants because co-dependants usually have had to put their own lives and development on hold to take care of others. (like drunk parents for instance). Their own needs are commonly ignored, increasing their sensitivity and the mistaken notion that they are/must not be worthy of attention or concern themselves. Those who should be caring for them have turned the tables on them. I agree with something I read (have read about 6 books on NSD) that said alcoholics have many narcissistic traits & are often NPD (was it you Kim?) I agree!
    Also wanted to mention Bill Clinton as an All Star NPD! Not only the lies, cheating, extreme charm, etc. but also how in addition to refusing to step down or even be embarrassed, he still had the energy to pardon a bucketload of criminals, (many whom contributed to his campaign & then Hillarys) he also took White House antiques on the way out! I have a friend that met him, and she said charisma exudes from his pores.
    How about Gov. Mark Sanford, the App. Trail guy who called his wife after making the announcement that his South American mistress was his "soul mate",and asked her how he "did" with his speech. Stunning disconnect on the part of another All Star Narcissist! Another home run!

    ReplyDelete
  41. Some more here:

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_famous_person_has_narcissistic_personality_disorder

    More links in the end of this:
    http://www.ultimate-self.com/famous-narcissists-charlie-chaplin/

    ReplyDelete
  42. Here's the thing.... from my limited knowledge on narcissism, I have read it is hard to diagnose and harder to treat. And from limited knowledge again you can get three psychiatrists to diagnose a person with the dreaded NPD and only one will reach the positive diagnosis. The APA is soon to change many of the categories for personality disorders, because many of the characteristics of these disorders overlap. Does anyone know if this is true? Ok here is my point, I believe the ex is an N, it has its strange comfort for me to be in this headspace with her. But the truth is, even with her psychiatric history I just don't know with any certainty that she has NPD. I do know the disregard she displayed towards me she displayed to our children, and significant others. And like the marriage, there were periods of relative normality. I would not place her a "high order" sufferer of NPD, compared to some of the comments I have read, but what she did and how she related within the family has caused more harm than our family could handle, it has had its effect....

    ReplyDelete
  43. I am interested in how many Ns started and how many were made that way. My ex always had the potential but her Catholic background held it in place but a soul searching mid life crisis and the marketing machine we all watch most nights gave here zeal to ignore her own culpability.
    In 18 years of marriage she appologised 5 times. once in the last 9 years.

    So do we as humans get worse with our shortfalls as we get older???

    Al Canberra. Australia.

    ReplyDelete
  44. My NPD husband is very attached to his parents and tells them everything! Then his NPD father, who is a writer, puts our personal info. in his short-stories. I just hope it is not genetic! I would like to hear from others if their NPD partner also nags you non-stop and go through your personal items? He also eats food off of my plate all the time but then got mad when I did it to him. I constantly feel like the rules are changing whenever it suits him. It is very confusing for the kids and I hope I am not doing them more harm then good by staying with him.

    ReplyDelete
  45. JS,

    I know I have NPD. I never knew this before I read your website. Now that I know, I also know my son-in-law is a very sick NPD, and is really doing a trip on my daughter. I need to help her see what's happening to her.

    I apologized to her for not accepting her feelings when she was growing up. I didn't know how to handle feelings, especially in stressful situations. I apologized to her for disrespecting her and dismissing her, even ignoring her. I still do it and now I know it!
    She is hurt! She told me I was really mean. I was but I didn't realize it. Until I saw how her husband treats her now, and I went looking for help for her. That's when I found out about NPD, and other important information. I found that I was part of the problem for her. That opened my eyes to myself and how I am with her. My husband too. I'm codependent too.

    But, my question is, "how do I help her recognize what her husband is doing to her?" I was told because I am her mother, I have to be very careful what I say to her about abuse. I need help to get answers. Please tell me what I should say to her about getting help! Thank you and thank you for this website. I really appreciate you! JS

    ReplyDelete
  46. I agree with Meg - I think Tom's narcissism is really obvious.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Lots of people have said Obama but I don't see it. What is it that you all see in him as narcissistic?? (not saying I disagree, prolly just haven't paid enough attention to him to notice).

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anybody remember the tennis player, John McEnroe? Was he a narcissist?

    Bear with me as this is the first time I've posted here. For the last year, I've been using a variety of resources to come to terms with the trainwreck that has been my life with various people that have used and abused me over the years. I've never known anything different, but I'm getting better at standing up to my current abuser, whom I'm married to. He thinks because he doesn't actually beat me, that he isn't abusive. I refer to him as "King Baby" in those times when he has decided he needs to boost his ego by throwing a tantrum. He doesn't strike me as someone who's looking for love, as seems to be the case with NPD, though he loves being the center of attention. He is more of a sex addict than anything. Lots of porn, strip clubs, a secret life that I doubt I'll ever know all the details about, etc. Can that be related to NPD?

    I've been talking with my two daughters a lot this past year, who are teens and both want me to leave him and get a divorce. That's pretty bad, isn't it? He's ignored the older daughter for her entire life until recently; now he's trying to suck her into his manipulative web but she's keeping her distance, doesn't trust him at all. As for the other daughter....he had spent a lot of time with her when she was younger, did things with him that HE wanted to do, like go fishing and played sports, and still thought he was a great dad, and thought all the arguing was MY fault (because of all the lies he's told her over the years)...but then she grew older and started questioning his overall behavior. She saw a particularly bad temper tantrum he threw last year in which I feared he really would become violent towards me, and has been shaken to her core as a result. She's very angry right now with him, but won't tell me much except to drop hints that I wouldn't like what he's been telling her about me over the years. Whether she thinks she's protecting me or him, I don't know but I'm very concerned for her as she's hiding something. I've told her she needs to tell somebody, even if it isn't me. No worries about sexual abuse as she insists he's never acted out inappropriately with her. I think she's trying to sort out the truth from the lies but I don't think she will find much truth coming from him at all.

    I'm more concerned right now with helping my kids lead their own lives, rather than focusing so much on him. I realize now that I have needs, too, that life can't always be about my husband and all his drama. I don't want to play the victim anymore. There ARE things I DO have control over, and there are steps I can take to figure out who I am and what I want out of life.

    I just wanted to unload a bit. Thanks for reading this. :)

    ReplyDelete
  49. For the comment from "Al in Canberra" this was for me indicative of NPD behaviour, the lack of sorrow for their actions. It was never in her vocabulary (the word sorry):)
    Another thought, has anyone seen any research on any differences between females who have partners with NPD, in opposition with males who have partners with NPD, seems to be slightly different dynamic there??
    cheers

    ReplyDelete
  50. Hi Everyone and thanks for your generous comments,

    OK so in response to AL in Canberra, the strange reality is that unlike what we are told it actually becomes easier to learn emotional intelligence as we hget older. As Danile Goleman jokes another word for emotional intelligence is 'maturity' you are very right however that advertising does seek to keep us immature and is often a bad influence.

    To the woman whose husband eats of her plate - I would highly recommend you visit our main site at

    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    and subscribe. You will get a ton of information and special offers on our ebooks.

    I would suggest the same to the woman whose father in law is a playwright.

    To anon who wonders why people say Obama is a narcissist - I try and stay non political but I would suggest perhaps because they say he has been to a party every night since the gulf oil leak tradgedy.

    And finally to the woman who is fearing for her daughters, I really feel for you and hope it might help if you check out this radio show (or read the transcript) here to learn more about the double life;

    http://www.globaltalkradio.com/shows/lovesafetynet/program13.php

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  51. Hi help is my husband narcisstic?
    weve been married 26years , he always has told lies even when im around which makes me very uncomfortable , he supes his stories up , and has women tx him , he always very sorry when i find out he tells them as ive spoken one that he was divorced for 5 years. also he told an old friend we had been divorced 3 years because i had an affair with someone from church and waiting for a big payout on our house ( ive never even had an affair ) and that he had just come back from america with a famous person. he also has started phoning a female school friend always late at night she said she doesnt want him to and that he seems a lonely man , he always out playing darts or is he? leaves me alone to look after the work place as we live where we work yes we work together too!hides his mobile phone at bed time , i feel really hurt that he has tried to destroy my character with the old friend i put her right and she was shocked and hurt , i cant carry on with all this its destroying any love i have left i feel as though our life together has been one long lie, does he really love me when he says he does is he capable of love I dont know anymore.ive also found hotel key in car and a motel ticket he said he didnt sleep with anyone and a call girls phone number on his mobile (the time i did find it)our children are sick of it all. every day at the moment is hard for me knowing he tried to destroy my character how do i forgive i know i must but its hard.

    ReplyDelete
  52. wow, what similarities in our men. My husband is on practically every dating site there is. He has been meeting up with local gutter sluts where we live. He has an excuse for everything he does wrong. he also has been to doctor after doctor & there isnt anything wrong with him.
    He went in for a colonoscopy{routine} his mother had him convinced he had cancer and wanted to knw where he wanted to be buried,HAHAHA. These people are so funny,the whole family seeks attention just like children,if they dont get it they lash out,make life hell for those of us that still have it together.

    ReplyDelete
  53. hi bibi here wish i knew all i know now years ago. i have lived with a narcissistic husband for 26 years. we are now separated and now he cant do enough for me. he needs my love and had ignored me when we were married. he had many affairs one in particular went on 7 years. i dont know if he is still in touch but it matters less now that i have broken that emotional addiction i had for him.we have a good platonic relationship and i enjoy having his respect. i also enjoy having this opportunity to rebuild my self esteem and to get to know myself. i feel very lucky to have found this new beginning and i have also alot more healing to do. my rare platonic relationship with the man who nearly destroyed me and had me on the brink of suicide is all i can deal with at the moment. i dont love him any more but i do still care about him

    ReplyDelete
  54. Hi, I'm the lady that's worried about her daughters, the one that you gave the link to about the double life topic on your show.

    I've read the transcript for the show, and have also been reading a bit of what's available on your site (and actually, I have bought the Love Safety Net workbook awhile back but haven't looked at it yet).

    Are you saying that instead of thinking of my husband's problem as an isolated issue like his secret life of sex addiction (which is what I've been running into a lot on the internet - treat everything that he has done as part of the sex addiction)...I should instead see the sex addiction as just part of the bigger picture of NPD? That's what I'm thinking you mean, anyway.

    I wish I had ran across your site before the day when everything did indeed hit me like running into a load of concrete face-first. The page about how you can recognize a narcissist describes my life in nearly every detail. He acts just like you said. He doesn't really want to give up his secret life and has been fiercely protective of ....whatever it is... that he keeps hiding from us all. I feel that he's confessed just the tip of the iceberg and that there's much more. I'm at that point where I can hardly stand to be in the same room with him, even on his good days.

    I guess I had better make some time to read that workbook and learn what I can and give up the fantasy that he will ever step up and lead his family like I so hoped he would for so long. 15 years of this has been quite enough (20 years if you count the time I knew him before marriage).

    Keep up the good work. It helps so much just to know that I'm not the only one in this kind of situation!
    Laurie

    ReplyDelete
  55. Hi anon worried about her daughters, check out the limiting abuse section in the workbook - but you should really read "Back from the Looking Glass" too as it really get's into the nitty gritty of standing up for yourself against what you are facing.

    Hang in there,

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  56. I also see everyone missing the other point to look at yourself and start fixing your fixing because you wouldnt be a victim of a narcissist if you were healthy too. narcissists and their victims both need fixing and looking deep into themselves to see what they need to start working on the finger shouldnt be pointing outward because there is 3 pointing right back at you. its good to be discerning so that you know who you are dealing with! ANd its good to become your best self! All the potential you have to become great!

    ReplyDelete
  57. Is there a connection between someone being narcissistic and fearing commitment. the guy I have been with for 5 years is not only afraid to commit but cannot commit to leaving either.
    He has also learnt how to hide his emotions behind jokes. Everything serious becomes a joke. NO wonder I don't believe him when he tells me he loves me. I just expect him to turn it on its head within a day.
    He has a great skill at working out our weaknesses. Mine is jealousy and competiveness.
    I often can't help feeling sorry for him too. He has the most amazing way of getting in under your defence system, always being humourous or seemingly really sad when you look like you are leaving. it draws me and that string of other women in his previous times back and back into the relationship. in the end he is so stimulating it is hard to let go. But I am determined to do so now.

    ReplyDelete
  58. We have had an interesting week.... weekend. Everything is always changing and never is the same seems to be our roller coaster ride. Leaves me wondering if I really understand what is even going on in our home.

    Last week I wrote about my husband's crash. I have been so busy that I haven't been back to the site to read what you wrote back to me. However my daughter (whom I have given your web site to for her own marriage) did read your blog back to me. (Deep breath.)
    I wrote that day from the local library.... I did remaove us from his abuse. I spoke with the drug and alcohol abuse center and have set up some councilling for myself. I have an RCMP officer whom I can talk with and have arranged a meeting to see. I have our emergency plan of escape set up and money set aside in case we need to get out fast.I have a net work of friends whom support my decission to stay and will give us temporary shelter in crissis. I am seeking legal advice so I understand what my rights are with our children and our home and he can no longer manipulate me with fear of not having a home or the childrens safety.

    When we returned home the day I wrote on your blog, he cried and I could see the fear in his eyes but his rudness and mean words hadn't left yet. I walked away. He came again later and spoke to me still upset but in a fashion that was respectful. I listened to his words and responded to them dealing with the issues he wanted to speak about. After a few minutes he became belligerent, I stood up and went off to do some chores only nodding when he said some rude remarks about my being done with the conversation. It's difficult to speak when he cuts off what ever I try to say or speaks over my words so saying nothing and refusing to participate seemed to work best.
    The following day he was filled with anger, hollering and screaming. We left for an hour and a half when we came back he was sleeping and he slept most of the day. Sunday the kids had plans and we were gone for 6 hours.

    Now he is all sweet and honey. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. We had a normal conversation last night one which I was allowed to speak and even have an opinion. I feel like I am being maneuvered. He is more peaceful because I am working on a project that requires my skills on the computer so as long as he can see the action (key word I noted in your material and I have put it to work for us... less words and more actions) he seems to feel secure with our making headway... or am I just wanting things to be different so I am accepting it at face value?
    We do have conflict in this area as He has demands of how I need to do my work that conflict with my moral values which I refuse to compromise. Which is why the work came to a stand still two years ago. I have made it very plain that I am doing the work, my name is on the project and I will do it my way or not at all. He does have brillant input that I am using but his methods are questionable and need redefining

    ReplyDelete
  59. Hi Kim
    I read some of the other blogs and have a concern regarding myself.

    I have not felt like the victim for several years now. I choose to stay because the father of our children will always have access to them and they need to have an adult help them to learn now at an early age how to deal with their father. Either I can gave insight and input or I can leave them to their own devices and their father's view point. I choose to help my children understand what is theirs and what isn't. To define ... when they do something that requires their father to dicipline them then they need to learn the lesson but if he is being unreasonable about something blown up and not based on fact or that they did not even do then they need to know they are not in the wrong and the unreasonable behaiour belongs to their father. Its a fine line and a very difficult one. I read a book that helped me to name what I am trying to teach and it is strength and dignity. Knowing when you have done wrong and being responsible for your actions but having the strength to stand up and state you did not do wrong and not become the scape goat for unreasonable punishment. Am I successful? Sometimes and sometimes not, but they are learning stength and diginity. I am reading the book you suggested Hold On To Your Kids with hope it will shed some insight to my methods and if I am doing more harm than good.
    How can I measure this successfully?
    Next thing is "do I need fixing?" Learning new things and defining the me I want to be isn't fixing. Its more like evolving into a beautiful butterfly, fixing makes me feel like I am broken. I don't even see it as fixing my husband but changing and evolving our relationship to a new and better level. I believe that learning is apart of daily life; when I stop learning then I stop living.

    ReplyDelete
  60. Hi Everyone and to anon June 22nd, yes it can be a part of narcissism to avoid feeling emotions - have a look at Lisa Charlebois last comment on the post "You Might be a Narcissist if" here on this blog.

    To LeAnne, you hang in there mate! It sounds like you are doing all you can and it is great you have a back up plan and support network. I believe your concerns about your children having to deal with him alone if you seperate are valid.

    Be ready to show him your boundaries have teeth if you need to (with actions not words) and please follow all the steps in "Back from the Looking Glass". I am sorry I keep saying that but it was hard to get it into as short a book as I did in the first place and it would be impossible to keep giving the same advice here with such limited space to write!

    You are doing great and I hear that you are growing - but maybe into a lioness ready to protect herself and her young more than a butterfly? (LOL) Both images are just as beautiful I think!

    ReplyDelete
  61. Not every arrogant womanizer is a narcissist. This is a misconception that's spreading like wildfire, and it is propagated by armchair psychologists and bloggers... and, worst of all, Sam Vaknin... It's almost as bad as the assumption that all psychopaths are serial killers... NPD is a mental health disorder which should only be diagnosed by mental health professionals with several years of training and very elaborate tests. So ... please ... stop saying Tiger Woods, and Gordon Ramsay, and President Obama are all narcissists, because ... and I'm sorry to be blunt, but ... none of you are mental health professionals with direct access to any of these people and the tests necessary to determine a diagnosis of NPD.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hi Everyone and to Myers,

    I have so many issues with your comment I think I better put them in point form in case others want to comment on these individually ...

    1. Having NPD and narcissistic tendencies (which is what has been pointed out about the people in this article) are NOT the same thing.

    2. As far as I can see there is only ONE arrogant womanizer on our list.

    3. I was not saying that it is wrong that all psychopaths are portrayed as serial killers, I was saying that people should stop saying that psychopathy and narcissism are practically the same thing - because they are NOT.

    4. The 'experts' that describe Vander Sloot as a narcissist have never had the chance to diagnose him.

    5. Do you seriously believe that no one should talk about a disorder (that rips peoples homelife to shreds) unless the person has been diagnosed - when the very nature of this disorder means they will never submit themself for diagnosis.

    I wonder if you see the narcissism in the elitism which suggests that only a small privilaged group has the right to discuss a problem that is tearing apart the very fabric of our society - even when that group admits they have very few answers to the problem.

    Please do not think that I have some grudge against the medical profession. A good percentage of our subscribers are highly qualified doctors and we have even been informed of a PHD been written on our work. I also come from a medical family.

    If you are living with a tiger do you stay quite and wait to protect yourself until the tiger has agreed to have tests done to prove it is a tiger?

    I really can't see where you are coming from except to protect a little peice of what you believe is hallowed ground which was never really yours in the first place (if you are a medical professional). Or maybe someone has accused you of being a narcissist? In that case our sites are probably the best help you will find to sort this out.

    If this is the case I would suggest that you subscribe at our main site here;

    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    Once you subscribe you will get 3 questions to help you know whether youa re the abuser or not.

    Narcissism is not the same as NPD and where someone is on this spectrum is not our concern - what we do is help people live with the reality of these very HUMAN tendencies and protect themselves from others who would scape goat them while also growing past these tendencies in oneself.

    Hang in there and stay tuned!

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  63. Loved this post Kim, but have to object a bit to Gordon Ramsey's being included. My son is a chef and has met the man, and says he was bowled over by how nice and giving and generous with himself he is in real life compared to his on camera persona, which, let's face, is exaggerated to make for high television ratings.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Kim, that 'hide in the herd' thing might also include someone who actually has honed the gift of 'saying nothing' DIRECTLY... who simply ... an aspect i have 'noticed' that is truely like 'grasping at smoke' ...the N person talks abt their homelife/family or their 'day' in generally disparaging or personally 'overwhelmed/discouraged' tones, and just waits for their 'audience' to make the snide or derrogatory comments(out of commiseration) at which they just have the oppty to 'roll their eyes' or utter 'hopeless sounding laughter' in and as an agreement. This is very covert, as the narcissist need never(!) admit they "say anything wrong/ or about you(the spouse) etc. It's totally non-verbalised, and is truely a bunch of smoke ... and mirrors.
    A narcissist is either covertly, directly or indirectly all about gaining approval, acceptance, and having or creating an 'audience' in front of whom they can use a myriad of methods to gain 'sympathy, alignment, negative support, and surround themselves with others willing to commiserate or "crusade" for them. In this way, they align with all the friends, while letting 'you' supposedly alienate yourself... they don't admit it is they who initiated poisoning the waters. Its an isolationists technique and serves Nar. partners very well. A way to notice if this is happening to you, is they never support your ideas or activities, or having your friends over at the house, they may 'meet' your outside friends/aquaintances, and then develope every way possible to keep you from enjoying those friends, creating more, or feeling good about leaving the house/taking time for yourself with those friends. All the while not saying anything to you directly about your having or not having activities or friends of your own. Suddenly you may feel or notice all the friends that are in your(as a couple) inner circle, really are connected to and thru your partner(Nar. partner)... techniques of islolating you. Annie

    ReplyDelete
  65. Rebecca [rebecca.h1@earthlink.net]July 4, 2010 at 3:32 PM

    I agree- living with a narcissist CANNOT wait for a "diagnosis." My boyfriend lived off me for the past yr, always claimed to be "broke." He makes 2x what I do w/no dependents (1 grown son not w/him), I have 2 girls I support on my own. His behavior ONLY worsened in the last 6 mos. He finally agreed to see a counselor, went in & lied, twisted all HE'S done & pretended I'd been doing it. He's never contributed- I've paid 100%. He ate my food, dumped his laundry off here, I've done ALL cooking, laundry, dishes, he showers here, etc. He got $ from me for his bills. He’s also stolen and calls it "borrowing without permission." He promised to repay me, but only paid back $450 of over $8,000. He kept saying things were just "tough this yr." He now told his family & counselor he "gave" me that $450.

    Verbal abuse started slow & progressed- calls me a f-ing bxxxx, fat (I'm 5'4", 98 lbs, UNDERweight), stupid, slxx & cxxx. I found out he's seeing other women. I don’t talk to any men except my brothers & dad. I can't get the truth sorted out- he claims he "doesn't remember lying, so it doesn't count." I confronted him & now he says, "SO WHAT! I'm here now. If you can't get over that I lie, & love me for who I am this minute, you're not worth my time." Total lack of feeling and no remorse. His parents gave him $ for bills b/c he said he gave all his to me! But he's been taking MY money & things to support himself. I just found out he's been buying marijuana & alcohol w/it.

    He claimed he was impotent & "couldn't" have sex. Apparently, he lied. One of the times he slept over last Dec. something happened that came close. I'm now pregnant & didn't find out for 4 mos- he kept saying it was impossible. When we found out, he threatened he'd kill it if I refused an abortion. He said since I won't, he WILL make sure it dies after it's born- he’s NOT going to raise/support it. He said babies “die of SIDS all the time; they just stop breathing." He said he WILL get custody & make it look like “an accident." He says a lot in private. He told me his (grown) son has a silencer & nobody will hear (I’m in the country) if a gun goes off here.

    He just scammed $26,000 from his insurance, convincing them a tornado caused tons of damage that was really preexisting, b/c he doesn't take care of his home. He took the $ & never fixed the house. He hasn't made his mortgage in mos- said he’s living "free" for a yr til they kick him out & will then live w/his parents. He said he's using the $ to get a lawyer & take the baby. I'm scared. He convinced his son to switch careers to the police force- he said he'll ALWAYS be able to find me. My family doesn't want to be involved in case they get hurt. He told me he'll have NOTHING to do w/the pregnancy, but he'll "be back" to get the baby. He's already fooled a professional. He called ME a 'slut' when he left, b/c I didn't want him sleeping over anymore with the way he behaves. Now he told his parents & coworkers I cheated on him! He’s seeing other women, but he's the only person I've dated in 8 yrs.

    I don't think I can help him, even with the program. It's dangerous. He's high all the time. I didn't know before, b/c I was unfamiliar with drugs. He looks "straight"- uses eye drops & learned how to act "normal" when high. He admitted, recently, he's been smoking it 5-6 x a DAY for over 20 yrs. He told me he’ll "clean up" to get custody & NOBODY (not even the law) can stop him- HE'LL do what he wants. He claims to "forget" everything he does & says “nothing's on purpose." A diagnosis might be impossible. He lies too well!

    ReplyDelete
  66. Hi everyone, and to Rebecca,

    Our'program' is number 1 about protecting yourself and you need that now urgently. "Back from the Looking Glass" will help you learn how to talk to the police and how to build a support network to bring down his lies. What you need to do now is going to be extremely scary but it is urgent that you take action to have him prosecuted and to protect yourself.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  67. Rebecca (rebecca.h1@earthlink.net)July 8, 2010 at 7:38 PM

    Kim,
    Thank you. Yes, I purchased Back from the Lookin Glass & The Love Safety Network workbook, on CD. I didn't realize it meant CD-rom, and mine doesn't work. [I have an old computer- downloading and movie clips take hours or don't work at all.] So, I'm looking for a print shop (as suggested on the pkg) that can print the info off them. We're going to the cities for an apt in a week, so there should be one down there. I'm really looking forward to the information. Thank you, so much, for your response.
    Sincerely,
    Rebecca

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hi Rebecca,

    If you conatct our help desk at

    info@narcissismsupport.com

    They will send you the download links so you can download them and read them onscreen straight away.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  69. Kim, I bought you book and have been putting the exercises in place. It has really been helpful to me but things between my wife and I are just getting worse. I no longer let her drag me into her senseless arguments. I try to not react to all the mean and spiteful things she says and I no longer let her blame me for everything that goes wrong in our lives.

    I have been very patient for over 5 years and hopeful that following your advice will change things for the better but things have only gotten worse. When we went to conselors she would lie and put all the blame on me. We met the counselors separately and they told me that they didn't think I was the problem and they needed to figure out what was going on with her. She told me the counselors said I was the one with all the problems.
    Besides all the mistrust and anger I feel towards her for never taking responsibility for all the problems she has created in our lives. I recently discovered she has been planning a divorce.

    1) She was on my computer sending emails and left her account open. I noticed many incoming emails for a popular dating site. I opened one and found she was discussing with someone how she was getting ready to file. I know she wasn't talking about filing her fingernails.

    2) My cell phone rang one day and when I answered it I could hear a conversation my wife was having with a divorce lawyer. She must have accidentally pressed redial on her phone when it was in her purse and it call me without her knowing it. I heard her whole 30 minute conversation. She told the lawyer all kinds of mean thing about me.

    I confronted her about what I heard on the phone call and she denied it and said she never met with a lawyer. I confronted her about the dating site conversation and she said it was one of her friends accounts. I'm tired of being lied to. We have had a terrible relationship for years because of her narcissism. I sleep in the basement because she doesn't want to have anything to do with me. We haven't been intimate in over 5 years.

    I lost my job a year ago and have been desperately trying to find any kind of work. Because I live in Detroit there are very few opportunities. I believe she is waiting for me to get a job then she will file the papers. I don't want to tear the family apart. I have young boys and can't bare to not be with them but I don't know what to do anymore to make things better.

    Most of my friends who know her tell me I should leave her. They are the one who told me she was a narcissist. I just can't stand the thought of what all this will do to my kids. It really makes me sad.

    I respect your advice and I pray for help every day.


    Thanks,

    DJ

    ReplyDelete
  70. Hi DJ,

    I am very sorry to hear what you are going through. It is great that you have become emotionally stronger but you are also going to need to stand up to her now it would seem. You have no way of knowing whether you will win her back or not I am afraid but this will give you the best chance and also the best chance of not losing your boys.

    Asking her to admit what she is doing behind your back won't work. You may need to get PI or do some serious investigations. I would also make sure you have proof. If she is having an affair it will be painful to discover but you will be in a much better situation if you are out of the dark. It is very important that you do the personal bill of rights exercise in the workbook and these radio shows of ours might also help you;

    A Double Life;

    http://www.globaltalkradio.com/shows/lovesafetynet/program13.php

    If she is having an affair;

    who will they turn to ...

    http://www.globaltalkradio.com/shows/lovesafetynet/program4.php

    I hope these give you some further insight.
    You need to show her that you are strong and loving but also that you are not a pushover.

    Hang in there DJ

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.fightbusters.com

    ReplyDelete
  71. I am working in your workbook Kim and love the insite from your blogs. Reading what others write makes me laugh (not that it is funny ) but yes it is my life. I want to write after I read other's stories and then realize it is only a repeat of what is already here. It has been almost a month since I found your site and I thank you!
    Nothing much has changed in our home, our children want to move out on our own (financially difficult at the moment and I don't want to leave any possibility that they would have to stay weekends with him if they didn't want to..... so for now we are here, are we safe ... maybe .... maybe not depends on the moment) however I am more peaceful. When the children tried to throw tempertantrums I used to walk out on them like nothing was wrong and they soon stopped the behavior because there was no advantage to it. I have started doing that with my husband and he called me on it. I just stopped and looked at him and started to laugh, I had no words of wisdom to share with him. As we all know "I am the one causing the fight and I am the one argueing with him" .....so if I don't participate how can I be the cause... oh my, at least it didn't cause a back lash and he went off on his own came back nicer! But like some of you; usually it is so he will get what he wants and he needs to be nice for awhile to achieve his goal.

    I have managed to:
    A. stop fighting with him.
    B. Focus on my own goals and life.
    C. discourage his rude nasty tirads.

    Now he has turned on the kids. I am afraid I do not have any patients for people who are cruel to their children and my disapproving glare isn't working. Actually I am seeking legal advice for the children to see if they are old enough to speak for themselves and not be forced into visitation with him, if that is the case then I plan to leave. We will relocate to another area and start over and most likely with out any support from him. I actually get the feeling he is trying to drive us away. When I offer to leave and ask him to help sort out what we need to do to achieve that he gets angry and calls it abandoning ship. Basically he doesn't want us here nor does he want us to leave. It's very sad really, I am very grateful I don't struggle that way... not being able to love or share love. It must be very lonely for him. I was asked just recently if I truely love him or do I just love the idea of the man who I thought him to be? This might sound odd, but yes I do love him and there is a man in that body that comes out only now and again who is very honest, sincere, loving and kind. Problem is I see less and less of that man every year. Now that he has turned on the kids I no longer have the luxurary to allow our spirt, souls or inner peace to be threatened by him. And yes I do feel sad about my decision to leave.
    If my husband learned this from living in an abusive home then the only way to break the cycle for our children is to remove them from the anger and the verbal abuse. Will he ever understand that? Most likely not!

    ReplyDelete
  72. Hi Kim,

    I do stand up to her. I sometimes feel blindsided by her words and actions. But I try to remind myself what kind of personality disorder I'm dealing with. It goes against my nature and the way I was raised to be unresponsive to all this craziness. There is always lots of drama with a narcissist and I have become very suspicious of her every word and action. I really hate being around someone who I feel can't be trusted.

    I don't think she is fooling around on me but I know she is looking. When we would go out for dinner she always wanted to be home early because she was tired but when her friends invite her out she has no trouble staying out til 12 or 1 a.m. I'm sure the minute she finds someone else she will leave. Narcissist need a sponsor for their life.

    I think she doesn't love me and maybe never did. If she ever did it was conditional and now that I can't meet those conditions it's gone. Over the years I have done wonderful things for my wife. She has made me crazy for over 12 years and in spite of this I kept trying to be nice and give her what she wanted to make her happy.
    I grew up in a household where we were not allowed to argue or question our parents authority or we'd be punished. My father would give my demanding mother whatever she wanted just to keep the peace at home. I guess the pattern stuck with me and I was doing the same with my wife. We went to a counselor many years ago who asked me if I gave my wife whatever she wanted and did whatever she asked just to shut her up. I had to confess that I did. The counselor told me to quit giving in to my wife and not let her make demands on me. She also suggested I quit bottling up all my frustration and start telling my wife how I felt when she made me angry because of her behavior. I told the counselor I thought it would lead to fights and she said I had to do it or things could never change. We've been arguing about almost everything ever since. I hate arguing and wish we could just be able to negotiate things but I learned that a narcissist is unwilling to compromise. I also learned that they are extremely critical of everyone and everything and blame others for all their misfortune. In spite of all the wonderful thing I have done for her she is only capable of rembering the times I did something wrong. She has no ability to forgive and forget. She provokes me to a point where I blow my cool and then reminds me of the terrible things I said when I was mad. It's like poking an animal at the zoo until it takes a swipe at you then you blame the poor animal.

    I will continue following your program and listening to your talk show. I know it may never help my relationship but it has helped me recognize other narcissist in life. And I know now how to deal with them better.

    I noticed a lot of women post about men being narcissist. Is it rare for a woman to be a narcissist? What are the percentages?

    Best regards and thanks,

    DJ

    ReplyDelete
  73. Hi to Everyone and DJ, I think what you need to realize with someone who is using narcissistic defense is that expressing your negative feelings is not standing up to them. The problem is that growing up they experienced emotions as tool of manipulation so it just makes them angry. This may have been a parent or brother or sister who acted angry or sad as a means of getting their way. Standing up to your wife will take kind words but decisive action. You may not think she is cheating on you but I would guess there is a double life going on and you would be best to find out what it is and start taking action to set some effective boundaries to protect yourself.

    To LeAnne, Now is the time that you need to use the personal bill of rights and I would suggest you do this before you talk about leaving. I know he seems to be trying to drive you away but in fact abandonment is probably a major issue with him and you leaving before you set boundaries on the abuse could make things much worse for you all. It is really important that you look at our ebooks and make a decsion one way or the other. There is very clear advice what to do if you want to seperate which is very different from the advice if you want to stay. If you mix up the two you will give him mixed messages and probably end up provoking him further. It is VERY important you play this smart now and laughing at him will not build trust and could backfire badly so please take care.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  74. Hi Kim
    I have been working on my Personal Bill of Rights. It is a powerful tool. Gap work is very hard I am working on my own challenges, however those I "try" to suggest to my husband are not appreciated and are nothing more than a reason to get angry with me so... I have stopped trying to do that and continue to read and re-read Back From The Looking Glass and the Love Saftey Net workbook. They are helping me and I have decided that he's on his own. There will come a point when he may ask for help but until then I'll just focus on myself. I don't know how to keep from sending him mixed messages. I want to stay on one hand but his behavior with our children is unaceptable and I won't sit back and let him abuse them. I don't trust that he will change and our 13 year old is having major issues because of our entire situation. I have began looking for councelling for him.
    Thanks for the help you have been an inspiration and small steps in one direction beats the circle I had been running in.
    Thanks again.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Hi to everyone and to Leanne - child protection services may be the right people to choose for your personal bill of rights exercise. You may want to warn him you will be talking to them and maybe you won't - you may also want to do it anonymusly - only you can decide what is going to leave you safe.

    Take care,

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  76. Hi There! I have been a victim or codependent as I read in the article from a Malignant narcissist husband for almost 7 years of marriage. Someone so powerful and charming at the same time, who manipulates people's mind to his own benefits. Someone very much like Eliot Spitfer and very fond of Orson Wells and that famous film, the third man. I had to watch that film over and over again with him, many times that drove me insane and I did not know why? My marriage was a chaos as soon as have our first child. Then, as the attention went only and purely to my 3 lovely children and housework, my husband became my silent enemy.When my third was born, my life was very routinely and very unhappy with him. He mistreated me so much that I asked him to separate. That triggered the worst of him. I almost ended up my life. My deep concern at present is who can protect my children from such man just because he is their father. There are no laws to put this people with personal disorders in treatment as they obviously refused testing or totally deny his actions, as seeing as normal. They do know what they are doing, though, because they are the ones who are destroying other people's life with mental abuse and then phisically. Some could fatal. Only then, the criminal system acts. But somehow, I would like to know if exists any "preventive way" or could be there some sort of law to protect victims and family victims from such Personal disorder people?

    ReplyDelete
  77. Part 2; Wife of a narcissist husband.
    I was a PA in the city, lots of friend, very happy, with a very clear mind, mature and determine person and passionate about life and good humor. All that was taken away drastically, some slowly and painfully. As soon as we married he made me stop working and said he will maintain me. Financial control. He put a merely £ 300 per calendar month since then until the end of our marriage. He hid most of his business, money, inheritance and women from me. We properly married in church. The christian faith and obedience to your husband makes us all wives to follow him. Having no indepence anymore, I was trapped plus when you are deeply in love, like everyone, makes us vulnerable. I started accepting things that are not acceptable to others. How do you know the difference when you give so much to him and nothing was back in return? Only time and tears. I was dragged from London to a small town, to follow him, to make our family in a safe environment. I was not longer allowed to make decisions. I wanted to stay in London to continue work and family as well. He did not. He made me stopped seeing my friends by seducing me so much to spend all the time with him. How terribly wrong the years I have suffered for this? Only if I had known before all about narcissist behaviour, I could have avoid confrontation and anger. Perhaps, I could have save the marriage somehow. While he was working and according to him "indispensable " to his company, he was going out with female colleagues to pubs, Company night outs and team work outings to bond in with the company coworkers. The nights they spent in hotels there was more than bonding as I found out. Just infidelity with one particular female for a year or so whom he enjoyed sex. I was pregnant and then pregnant again. At home, he was the lord and the master. I had to be his subjective wife and servant. I had to prepare business parties for all his colleagues and run the whole party on my own with my babies around crying. No sympathy or help from my husband. Some of his colleagues felt pity on me and said so. They expressed concern about his abusive behavior towards colleagues and swearing at clients in the phone. They could not believe I was with him. When my third was born, my life was very routinely and very unhappy with him. He mistreated me so much that I asked him to separate. That triggered the worst of him. I almost ended up my life. Tried suicide and failed. On that day, he left me alone,on purpose he took them on a nice day out in town at the local funfair so they forget about mummy crying so much. He was back and told me "try to succed next time and make sure you leave a note to exclude me of anywrong doings". That was the lowest point.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Part 3: wife victim of a narcissist:
    From a happy marriage and a short period of charming honeymoon, I was dragged in a way or accepted to be a happy housewife with children in a nice house only from the outside. No-one could see or believe what was going on inside. He started to reduced me to nothing and made me feel guilty or wrong from every single thing, overly criticed, disminished in his social class and as a woman. In intimacy, not longer I was providing him with pleasure and all sort of verbal abuse you can imagine. He was on the look for someone young and with no children who can give him pleasure in sex only. He erased all my database and contacts from friends and my own family members, twice, so I could not leave him or talk about him when I was in despair. Not a coincidence. He controlled all my accounts for his benefits. He isolated me. He spoke about me having depression and post-natal depression and not able to cope with my children. Lies after lies. I have to suffer in silence his infidelities, his outings with his females colleagues, his love-relationship with some female in internet, etc etc. Plus his obsession with pornography in internet and lately with my eldest daughter. I was shocked what was happening and tried denial. This is not happening in my life, in my family but the doubts of his actions still lingers in my mind. He used to watched porno in his pc and then went to my daughters bed long after she was asleep and stayed there the whole night. I discovered him coming out of their bedroom and asked him why? he shouted at me as if I was imagining odd things and labelled me as crazy. I was crying loads. I felt very powerless to do anything. I hide from friends, no longer was social or seeing other mothers because no one would believe me. While I was carrying my daily routine with my 3 beautiful children. I wanted him to leave me so badly that I asked him to have an amicable divorce. Solicitors sent twice paperwork to sign and all he did was put them in a bin. The situation went worse.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Part 4: wife victim of a narcissist husband.
    He controlled me financially so tight that I could not have any freedom or money to pay solicitors or means to save money and escape with my children. Finally, I could not longer resist no more. My ex husband tortured me, emotionally and went physically at times, which I had to hide. It was the only time, I stood up. When he went to my daughters bed I confronted him and he fight me and tried to kill me. I managed to defend myself and he was put in jail for 24hs. As he is a nice charming gentleman, he was released and bailed. Then the Crown Prosecution Service acquitted him. The reasons were: “His words against mine, given the benefit of doubts as there were no adult witness, only the children who were not taken into account”, even though they remembered what they saw very well when my husband try to kill me. I felt so betrayed by the legal system somehow, but I did have a courage finally to divorce him. I called Social workers for help and after he declared horrible things about me instead. Social workers have talked to my girls and they resumed a report "nothing sinister about his father" The positive thing is that marvellous feedback about me. The distorted thruth has gone no further. My capacity and ability as a mother was a positive reward to my low-confidence at that time. I had since then, lots of rewards and appraisal from friends, school teachers, church members and the priest who supported me. To be honest, the strength comes from the words of my mother who told me never to leave my children or commit anything stupid to give him the right to take my happiness away. He does not deserve such wonderful children because he does not want them in reality, just the mere image of himself as being a father. When I heard from my ex-husband (shouting at me) that he only married me to prove his own father that he can father some children. He wanted to prove him wrong that he was not gay, as his own father suspected him. That cruel truth was in my ears for many years until present. People and friends who knows us in my community have seen him behaving aggressive towards my girls in public. Concerns were expressed by correspondence via solicitors and my ex-husband reply was "they do not know what they are talking about as they have not seen the whole episode" of the moment of aggression towards the youngest child, a toddler. He inspire fears to other children as he is very abrupt and harsh. Protection for children is quite difficult in this case as it is difficult to prove the dangers of the children being with him. Now we are divorced after a year and half of dealings in Court. However, my safety is not 100% sure and my children's vulnerable age is what I am worry about when they visit him. He manages to twist their little minds and do unreasonable things, shouting, threats and totally apathic towards my children feelings. He does only preferences to our eldest daughter, as she is the spitting image of his mother. But all of them are scared of him. They do not want to go with him and I am obliged by law to respect Court orders of contact visits. What else could I do now? In order to seek protection for my children I am sharing this with you not only for the lovely confort and releave that I feel when I am not the only one, but also, with the hope to find any of my questions answered for the sake of my children. They are minors and I do not want them to have any psicological damage inflicted by their father and not ending like me heartbroken and deeply vulnerable still. Thanks in advance. Laura.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Hi the victim of a narcissist,

    Thanks for taking the time to write your story. I will refer people to it in future who sometimes think their situation would be somehow easier to take action on if there was physical abuse.

    This is obviously not the case as police can be extremely difficult to get onside.

    "Back from the Looking Glass" deals a lot with handling yourself with the police and other people you are drawing in as a support network to best get their protection and help.

    As hard as it is, when you are talking to the authorities it is very important that you learn to leave your story and emotions out of it and just focus on one concern at a time and use the correct words.

    Incest is a very serious crime and you need to be sensitive to your daughters fears about talking about this but also you need to start diligently gathering evidence and getting advice from agencies that deal with this crime.

    If the first person you seek help from is not going to take any action stay calm and move on. There are few people with courage in this world and getting mad at the cowards will only waste your precious time and make you look bad.

    In this regard keep your investigation as quiet as possible but don't be scared to strike when you are certian you have the advantage.

    Your husband plays on your family being sensitive to others and being nice. You can turn this to your advantage. He doesn't expect you to play to win - he has probably seen you beg and plead so often that he will underestimate you as an adversary. You are fighting for your daughters souls here however and so you cannot afford to play nice or expect him to take any responsibility for the safety of your daughters.

    Don't play nice, play smart and play to win. You more than anyone else probably know what his insecurities and weaknesses are. You will know the chink in his armour if you think hard enough about it.

    Find that chink and very quietly but very deliberately take solid aim.

    You need to deliver a knock out punch in one too because you do not want him using your children to retaliate against you.

    Play the undercover agent building a case and slowly finding people in the system who will help bring a conviction that will stick.

    Undercover you can't pounce until you have the evidence and a rock solid case.

    Your children are counting on you now and you can do this! You need to lose the role of victim and take on the one of adversary and victor, because for yourself and your children's sake you have no choice but to put everthing you have into this campaign against his tyrrany over your lives.

    Kim Cooper
    http://www.narcissismcured.com

    ReplyDelete
  81. Dear Laura,

    I just sit and cry when I read your story. My husband is a narcisist, but I am not nearly as smart or strong as you are. I have lost my daughter because of him. And I have done nothing about it. I sit and cry always, and do nothing. I hope you have been able to start your quest to save your daughters. I wish you much luck and prayer....Stacey

    ReplyDelete
  82. I am 35 years old having the worst time . I just cought my boyfriend at another girls house when i got there i was let in just to be pushed and things got much worse the girl and i began to fight i left hestayed with her the cops came to our house arrested me . He came the next day and got me out of jail with a 5 page letter he wrote to me in hand so sorry i love you i am a cheating bastard please dont leave me . well her i am still with him. but yet the other day he says to me i get what i deserve he said i should not have whent to the girls house . i am so confused and feel so stupid. i have to children and realy not sure of what is going to happen in court scared to deth and there is so much more he tells me i am the one in the wrong that her did nothing wrong by going to her house he lied to me that night and said he waas sick so he was going to stay home while i whent to go help my girl friend so when i came home he was not i had a feeling so i whent with it and found him at her house. broken hearted and confused is he at fault for any of this?

    ReplyDelete
  83. The person I encountered who I know is narcissistic/compulsive sex addict is hugely interpersonally destructive who I'm thinking of suing. They are sweet to those they don't need anything from but otherwise look out. He took me for the hell-ride of my life while putting on an act. I dreamt of him turning into a devil after it was all over. Never had an actual affair thank goodness. This man can not be intimate and has an unstable personality, his wife demonstrates enabling and deep denial. This is not the same thing certain leaders and others are suffering from. Obama's daughters and wife look genuinely content in their family unit. There's definitely a type or continuum.

    ReplyDelete
  84. does anyone have a success story about a N realizing that he/she has it and acually having a real, loving, and caring relationship? how did he/she figure it out? how did they repair the relationship?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Anon,

      You might like to have a look at our testimonials page this hasn't been updated for awhile - but we get new testimonials every few days ...

      http://www.narcissismcured.com/testimonials.html

      Delete
  85. My ex-husband is a narcissist and has borderline personality disorder and is bipolar. He was the most charming, well spoken and flattering person I had ever met. All that changed when our company started to prosper. He became puffed up and bigger than life. He would verbally attack anyone who disagreed with him or who crossed his will. Eventually, it started being directed at me when I didn't say words or phrases perfectly, or loud enough, etc. He started cursing at me, bullying, etc. The second time I strongly set a boundary, he called me horrid names and threatened to kill me - ordered me out of our home. Of course within two days he requested I come home and made some half effort remark about having acted out of turn. That wasn't enough to make me feel it was safe to return home. He has done everything possible to discredit me, ruin me and threaten me through others who believe him. Thankfully I was able to get a restraining order and eventually divorced him last month. The truth is, I don't miss the drama, the confusion, the nervousness that comes from never knowing what is coming next, the cringing and the exhaustion of trying to do and be whatever it takes to stay off his radar. My life is more peaceful without him, but I do miss the companionship we had for the first three years. I didn't divorce him because I didn't love him. I divorced him to protect myself from his destructive and vengeful actions that resulted when I simply asked him to no longer call me names. It wasn't an unreasonable request then, and it will not be tolerated in my life again.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Are all these posts written by the same person? I can't read them because of the way they are written.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Which posts are you referring to - the articles on this blog or the comments?

      Delete
  87. why the fuzz is tony stark and jace wayland not there?!?!?

    ReplyDelete

Please Share!

Join the Narcissism Daily Friends Connect Social Network